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There are a number of other folks out here doing this meaningful work right alongside me. This interview is actually the first time I’ve ever met Alexa Smith! And, just like me, Alexa has had quite the road to get to this place of consulting in the theater and performance spaces.
In this conversation, Alexa shares about her early career in the arts and what led her to become an EDI consultant. She also shares about the amazing work she and her colleagues at The Public Theater are doing, which I think can serve as a model for so many of us trying to do this meaningful work in this industry. And possibly my favorite topic—we also discuss how Alexa has navigated motherhood and her career. Get ready for this amazing conversation! I hope you enjoy the show.
In this episode, we cover:
How theater influenced Alexa from an early age
The magic of Shakespeare
What Alexa’s journey in the world of theater has been like
How Alexa transitioned from performing to consulting
What it was like for Alexa being a new mom
How she navigated motherhood and acting
How Alexa is introducing her daughter to the theater
Alexa’s DEI process and work in the arts
How the norms and culture of Broadway have evolved
What a day in the life at The Public is like for Alexa
How The Public plans to take the arts into corporate spaces
The innovative work The Public is doing to around disability, access, and advocacy
Advice for theaters with slimmer budgets for where to start with EDI work
What changes around childcare and self care Alexa is happy to see from The Public
I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did! It’s incredibly rare I get to speak to another EDI consultant who’s also a mom who was also an actor! And while much still needs to change in the theater industry—it’s so nice to be able to reflect on all the good that’s happening already. I’d love to hear from you—DM me on Instagram anytime!
More About Alexa Smith
Alexa is Associate Artistic Director and Director of Cultural Transformation at The Public Theater in New York City. She also serves as Director of Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion for Broadway's HELL'S KITCHEN, a new musical from Alicia Keys.
Links & Mentioned Resources
Beyond Accessibility w/ Brennan Srisirikul
Connect with Alexa Smith:
Connect with Kira:
Thanks for joining me on this episode of Inclusive Stages! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help me reach even more theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone.
Thanks to our music composer, Zachary McConnell, and our producer, Leah Bryant.
More about the Inclusive Stages Podcast
Welcome to 'Inclusive Stages' -- the go-to weekly podcast for theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone. We'll chat with actors, directors, designers, scholars, and more about the current landscape of the theater scene and get their thoughts on how we can do better.
Host Kira Troilo will also give you a sneak peek into live EDI coaching sessions and offer actionable tips for creating more equitable, inclusive, and empathetic theater spaces that support and value the diversity of artists and audiences. Join the conversation, and let's collectively shape the future of human-first theater, one stage at a time.
This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you.
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Inclusive Stages podcast follows:
Kira Troilo (00:03.538)
Hi Alexa.
Alexa Smith (00:05.129)
Hey, how are you?
Kira Troilo (00:06.63)
I'm doing pretty well, how are you?
Alexa Smith (00:09.109)
I'm great, the first day of school here in New York, so I'm very happy.
Kira Troilo (00:12.775)
Wow. I'm sure. How many kids did you send to school?
Alexa Smith (00:18.571)
So just one today. have a little my daughter six She went into first grade and then my stepson who's older he's in college So he started a couple weeks ago, but they both live in our home. So free babysitting, but yeah, it's a nice time of year
Kira Troilo (00:31.618)
Mmm.
Kira Troilo (00:35.815)
that's lovely, I love the free babysitting. I have a six year old who went back yesterday and yeah, so exciting and another one coming very shortly so by the time this airs he will be in the world. so hopefully I'll have some free babysitting as well. Yes, that's right.
Alexa Smith (00:37.759)
That's right. That's right.
That's right.
Alexa Smith (00:48.501)
There we go.
Alexa Smith (00:53.609)
Yes, it's very important.
Kira Troilo (00:56.519)
Yay, well thank you so much for chatting with me. I'm so excited to hear about your work as someone who's doing equity, diversity, inclusion for theater. So before we get into it, I'd love to know what you would describe as your theater origin story.
Alexa Smith (01:13.483)
Sure, so I'm an only child. I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky, which is a wonderful arts town. There is a great ballet, an amazing orchestra. There is Actors Theater of Louisville, a big world renowned nonprofit theater. And so I got a lot of that. We got a lot of touring shows, which was great. And my mom was amazing at figuring out how to get
low costs or free tickets to everything. We didn't have a lot of money, but she was really, really good at finding those opportunities. And so the first thing I can remember going to was a tour of Peter Pan, I think in the late eighties. And it was just magic. And in particular, I remember the feeling of trying to figure out if it was real or not, you know, and, and
Kira Troilo (02:00.99)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (02:10.844)
Yep.
Alexa Smith (02:12.679)
I think that was transformative. the other thing that has really come full circle recently is my mom took me to our Shakespeare in the park in Louisville as a kid. And that was similarly just impactful in that it's not that I could understand everything, but I wanted to live in that world. Like I wanted to understand it. And I never felt talked down to in the Shakespeare. And
It is one of those things that continues to amaze me that's possible through Shakespeare is that it's so egalitarian. They're really, it's created to speak to everyone. So in coming to the public, I really have meditated on those early experiences with Shakespeare and how it never felt like it wasn't for me and trying to unpack how that was possible.
Kira Troilo (03:07.644)
Hmm
Alexa Smith (03:07.733)
So I think those are the two experiences for me I remember vividly as a kid. My mom was great, but also I just was one of those kids that could sit and watch a whole show. And my daughter is the same now, but I know not all kids are like that. So, yeah. So I really appreciate just her not being afraid to take me to something
Kira Troilo (03:26.461)
No, my son is like that too and it's rare.
Alexa Smith (03:36.979)
and not knowing whether or not it was gonna work. And just giving me a shot at sitting through something. So yeah, it's just a lot, I've been thinking about it a lot. Becoming a mom, of course, and just doing the work we do with the public too, trying to unpack those early starts.
Kira Troilo (03:53.501)
Yeah, wow, that's, yeah, to think about Shakespeare, I feel like there's so much going on curriculum -wise in our world and what should we learn, what shouldn't we learn? I'd love to know if you're open to sharing what more you've discovered in exploring why Shakespeare spoke to you when you were a kid.
Alexa Smith (04:15.337)
Yeah, I mean, part of it is that Shakespeare had to write for the everyday working person of the time, the groundlings, of course, and he had to be very clear and deliberate in the storytelling. So you can't get lost in the plot. If you start to get lost in the plot and you don't know what's going on, you feel like you're not supposed to be there. So he's just masterful at that part. also,
the language, know, the older I get, the more some of this language means something different to me. And so to me, that's, it's a really transformative experience, continuing to learn more Shakespeare in this role. But, you know, I also think that as a young artist, it feels very intimidating to do. And so you have sort of,
the experience of being an audience member and the experience of doing it on its feet. But I was also a musician. I got a violin really early and there's something so musical about working in Shakespeare as an actor that for me, if I could relate in the rigor of practicing violin or singing to working on the verse, working inside the verse. And so,
Kira Troilo (05:16.893)
Mm -hmm.
Alexa Smith (05:38.161)
it really felt like, I've got this set of rules and principles and now be expressive. It's not so different than learning to place Bach on the violin. You have boundaries, you have structure, but now be an artist. So I know that it can be intimidating just as singing Mozart or Verdi is for singers, but I just always felt connected to the roots of it. could go back to the meter.
Kira Troilo (05:46.834)
Hmm.
Alexa Smith (06:04.843)
I could let it wash over me and the audience and not worry so much about am I getting all of it? Because you just don't. I don't. There's pieces I know really, really well. And I don't know every piece as deeply as some, but I find new things every time. And that is, as an artistic person, that's just a really exciting space to be in.
Kira Troilo (06:13.298)
I don't, nope.
Kira Troilo (06:29.695)
Yeah, that's beautiful. What about your journey to getting, because you've mentioned the public, which you know I'm a huge fan, what would you say your journey has been like getting from you know the kid at Shakespeare in the Park to working at the public theater in your role?
Alexa Smith (06:49.673)
Yeah, you know, what I think about a lot of is I, for a long time, tried to be on a path to what I wanted to be. And the minute I accepted that there is a way to be on a path that's flexible, that really unlocked a lot for me. And what I mean by that is I was a musician and an actor.
And I just felt like I was getting on the prescribed path, going to school, moving to New York, getting up early to go to auditions. Like I'm a very disciplined person in nature. And so I didn't mind doing all that, but then I felt like some things weren't clicking. And part of that is I'm a very merit oriented person. So I'd get into an audition or I'd get some feedback that would be like, okay, yes, I understand why you might want to do Carrie Piperidge in Carousel, but like, you know,
Kira Troilo (07:19.198)
Mm.
Alexa Smith (07:46.131)
I don't know that it fits into the world, right? Meaning I'm a black person, it's New England, like, and I had a hard time breaking that down. And I really would ask all the questions like, so what about it wouldn't fit into the world? And what I really had to make peace with was like, I don't fit into their worlds and they're designing a world where I'm not meant to be a part of that. So I'm not, I cannot spend my whole life fighting upstream.
Kira Troilo (08:06.052)
Mm -hmm.
Alexa Smith (08:16.147)
So I'm sure there's other spaces where I can be and be in my talents, use my talents. And that was really liberate, really hard, but liberating because I spent so much time as an artist, basically trying to be what I felt like I was supposed to be. And at the same time,
Kira Troilo (08:39.986)
Mm -hmm.
Alexa Smith (08:43.401)
A lot of that was on me because I had a lot of teachers who said like, you have to find what's special about you. What's easy for you? What's a thing that you can do other people can't do? And then I, you know, once you make that decision to say, okay, what can I do that others don't? And for me, a lot of that was, I had a lot of curiosity about how things are built, why they're built the way they are, how things work. And then I would look around and feel like,
The other people in the show don't care about that. They want to show up and do their work on stage and then go home. And I never felt that way. I never felt really complete in a production when I didn't know about all of the other elements. And so tapping into that, it's hard because I spent so much of my life trying to be a performer and being a performer that it felt like a little bit of grief to say like,
Kira Troilo (09:25.895)
Hmm.
Kira Troilo (09:33.371)
Yeah.
Alexa Smith (00:05.999)
Yeah, so I think as an actor, you're less curious about the business end of things. I found myself to be more curious about those things than my colleagues. And I have to say, my husband, who is not in the biz at all, he was very astute to point those things out to me.
And he said to me, at some point when you believe me, I think it will clear some things up for you. And it really did. So at some point I had been doing a lot of PR and marketing for an agency, which was sort of my survival side hustle work, but I actually found it really interesting and I learned a ton. Just working in an office for six, seven years, I learned a lot about just how day -to -day business has to function.
Kira Troilo (00:51.946)
Hmm.
Kira Troilo (00:58.177)
David.
Alexa Smith (01:00.263)
And from there, I actually went to New York City Opera and I was their director of marketing and I had sung there as well. So it felt sort of like a space that I understood. And I really, from the marketing and PR side, like I really understood the stories that we could be telling that we weren't telling yet. And that was really, it was a lovely sandbox to sort of play in.
Kira Troilo (01:01.654)
there.
Kira Troilo (01:20.959)
and
Alexa Smith (01:26.861)
And then from there, I went to work at Manhattan School of Music in the president's office there. And just circling back to the mom stuff, part of the reason I went there, which a lot of us have to figure this out for ourselves, but I knew I really wanted to work in a theater, but I was finding it really hard to figure that out with a newborn baby. And I just never felt like
Kira Troilo (01:27.805)
I went to work.
yeah.
Kira Troilo (01:50.676)
Oof.
Alexa Smith (01:54.971)
I was getting it right and I didn't know how to manage my time well. And so when this opportunity came along at Manhattan School, they asked me to apply for the job. went and asked chief of staff. It was a hard decision for me because I thought like, all I want to do is be in a theater. And the president of Manhattan School said, you know, we have six, seven theaters at the school. We produce 800 things a year.
Kira Troilo (02:19.414)
Why?
Alexa Smith (02:23.117)
I hope that you'll be able to find some of that for yourself there. But the greatest thing is you can leave at five when you need to. You get your summers are gonna be really relaxed and we have two weeks off at the holidays at the end of December. And I just said like, sign me up. It really was and he's not someone that has children but.
Kira Troilo (02:42.999)
That's like gold for a new mom. Yeah.
Alexa Smith (02:50.337)
He really wanted my specific skill set to be in his office where I knew when I went to school there. I did my master's and opera there. So I knew the school, I knew the players, the faculty, everything. I knew how the school had to function. And then he said, you know, my first week of work, he said, what do you want to do after this? And I was like, are you kidding? I just want to sleep. I just got here. Like, I just want to do a good job. And he said,
Kira Troilo (03:17.822)
Yes!
Alexa Smith (03:20.187)
Yeah, but this is the type of job where if you say, want to go run an opera company after this, we'll find some ways to upskill you and give you some projects that will help you get there. And that is, since then, that's always been the type of mentor I want to be to others because it meant the world to me. Even though I couldn't see it at that time, I just wanted to sleep and get my kid to sleep through the night. But.
Kira Troilo (03:41.857)
Have a
Alexa Smith (03:45.035)
It was really empathetic and it was really also helped me see like your life is not going to be just being a mom. It is the most important thing every day of my life, but that concentrated early period of motherhood. It is that it's concentrated and it changes and so having someone that was seeing me past that was very helpful. And then in getting to the public.
Kira Troilo (04:08.138)
Yeah, wow.
Alexa Smith (04:12.667)
I will tell you, I applied for probably 10 jobs over a year and a half. And I didn't know what I wanted to do other than, you know, I wanted to be in a leadership role, but I hadn't done enough in development or marketing. I wasn't quite ready for an executive director job, but what I did do was a bunch of EDI work at the school. But I was really afraid to be a diversity officer because of all the things.
because of, know, I, when I did apply for those roles, it felt really tokenizing in some of the processes. but the public for me, one, when it came along, I thought I want to work at the public period. Like that place is a vibe. I'm always in awe at things that I see there. And if this is a way in.
Kira Troilo (04:42.262)
Hahaha.
Kira Troilo (04:47.573)
Yes.
Alexa Smith (05:07.461)
through DEI work and they will sort of accept the way I do that work specifically. I think I wanna try for that. And the best thing about having a flexible path is things like this will come along and this wasn't a job. DEI work at the public wasn't a job three years ago. The staff made it a job and so had I been more rigid in my path, I never would have been here. So yeah, that's kind of the...
Kira Troilo (05:14.689)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (05:27.147)
That's right.
Alexa Smith (05:35.461)
journey through above, you know, below all of the waves. Yeah, yeah, it's great.
Kira Troilo (05:38.519)
The winding road, yes. I love that. So many things, so many things. I want to circle back to being a mom too. But also Carrie Pippridge, must have been before Audra McDonald.
Alexa Smith (05:53.263)
So the funny thing was it was after, but what I experienced, so I had a lyric voice and I was going to lots of theater auditions. Yes, but what I discovered with multiple casting directors and some agents and things was people treated Audra not as an open door, but as an anomaly.
Kira Troilo (06:00.801)
I was going to ask you because of your opera training.
Kira Troilo (06:16.214)
Mmm.
Alexa Smith (06:16.507)
So I would get a lot of feedback that was like, you know, can't just like do the Audra track. Like you have to be more versatile. You have to do dream girls. You got to do. And I was just like, but I saw that Carrie Piper, it's the 94 Lincoln Center production. And I thought, wow. Like people will let us do that now. And then it was like, no, no, no. This was like a thing. And like, she's a brilliant genius and she is.
Kira Troilo (06:34.538)
Right!
Kira Troilo (06:41.216)
Mm
Alexa Smith (06:41.551)
But to say like a black woman with a lyrical voice is singular. mean, it's just, was, those were hard times when I had to hear that because I knew it wasn't true, but I didn't have the power, right? So, yeah.
Kira Troilo (06:50.729)
It's not. But I just have the power. That's right. See? Yeah. it's, yeah, I could, I could talk all day about that. Like I very similarly, you know, I don't have an operatic voice, but I play more, you know, like ingenue roles. You know, definitely done some golden age musicals and even like the last five years recently. You know, and I had people, had people come up to me afterwards and say, it meant so much that you were just like a black Cathy.
Alexa Smith (07:05.572)
Yeah, right.
Alexa Smith (07:12.73)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (07:20.394)
Like you weren't putting, you didn't put anything on, like you were just playing Cathy and you're black and that meant a lot to people.
Alexa Smith (07:20.709)
Right.
Alexa Smith (07:25.913)
Right. Yeah, and also, you know, that piece in particular, it's a great piece, like the writing is good that you don't have to live inside of that. You can be inside of that and it will color the things that you do and who you are as a Cathy that's black. But when you look at well -constructed pieces, they allow for that. And Carousel allows for that, you know. There are a lot of pieces that really do.
Kira Troilo (07:48.544)
That's right.
Alexa Smith (07:55.099)
just in existence, allow for that. It's just the lack of imagination on the other side of the table. It was astonishing sometimes.
Kira Troilo (08:04.243)
Absolutely. Oof, and you had that imagination always, it sounds like, and you found your way to somewhere where you could help. You never know. I'm dying to talk about your work at The Public, but I also just want to ask you about those early mom days. Were you acting at all when you were a new mom still, or had you moved on? Okay.
Alexa Smith (08:11.375)
You never know.
Alexa Smith (08:25.871)
No, I had already moved on. was doing, I was at the opera company. was at City Opera. And then I was at MSM. I think I moved to Manhattan School and my daughter was like maybe five months. And I think, well, this is also before there was work from home time. So I really didn't have much leave. And, you know, that's the one thing if I could.
go back and have my daughter again. I'd love to have a little more of that early time. But what I really found out about myself, and I know everyone tells you this, like everyone's pregnancy is different, everyone's different with infants. I just was not natural with it. And I think for me getting back to work,
and integrating work while I was still taking some time was very helpful to my sense of self because I had this whole new thing where I was trying to figure out what to do, how to do it. My stepson, when I met him, he was about seven, so he could already shower by himself and things. But the early days, you feel so unsure all the time. For me, having some work to do made me feel sure of myself.
Kira Troilo (09:27.552)
Mmm.
Kira Troilo (09:36.964)
Mmm.
Alexa Smith (09:51.033)
and it gave me some structure, but you know, I had pretty bad postpartum. My husband had to really help get some intervention for me. And I'm really grateful that he recognized it and got help. and once I had that in place, I felt so much better just having a therapist, having a little medication. Yeah, it really, and I like to speak openly about it because,
Kira Troilo (09:57.28)
Me too.
Kira Troilo (10:05.086)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (10:12.883)
Yes, amen.
Alexa Smith (10:18.487)
it really helped me be a better mom and manage everything that was going on with a little more ease. Just the on -ramp was a little bit easier. So for me, I like my work. It's very much integrated to who I am as a person and as a parent. So it's a part of our life, it's our family life. My daughter comes to the theater. She chooses what she wants to see too.
Kira Troilo (10:21.002)
Yes.
Alexa Smith (10:47.115)
I try and keep her on a pretty rigorous routine, I would say. I'm still that kind of mom. But I do, every once in a while, I'm like, you know what? You wanna go see stuff tonight? Let's go see stuff. And she's like, yeah. And we get home late and she's tired the next morning. But you know what? We're at that age where we can do that. And it's really important for me, for her to see why I'm not at dinner sometimes. I'm doing this, yeah.
Kira Troilo (10:58.973)
yes.
Kira Troilo (11:11.85)
Yes.
That's amazing. Yes, take me to see steps with you. Yeah, but I had a friend once ask me, because I struggled with the same, I struggled with postpartum as well. I'm very excited having this child to kind of have a little bit of a do -over in that early phase. But a friend asked me, what do you want your son to say about you? Do you want him to say like,
Alexa Smith (11:17.461)
Hahaha!
Alexa Smith (11:30.223)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (11:38.187)
That's my mom is a mom, she stays home and she cooks and like there's nothing wrong with that. And you know, some moms get extraordinary fulfillment from that. But no, I do so much in the world and I want him to talk about what I do. So, you my son is like, my mom teaches people to be kind. And yeah, what's better than that? And he only knows that because I take him with me to see what I do and he and we talk about it. So, I love that.
Alexa Smith (11:51.524)
Yeah.
Alexa Smith (11:56.076)
my gosh, what's better than that?
Alexa Smith (12:01.625)
Yes, yes. I love that.
Kira Troilo (12:07.415)
You mentioned when you went to the public that you had a way that you did DEI or EDI work. I'd love to hear about the way you do it versus the way maybe you'd seen it done before.
Alexa Smith (12:15.333)
Yeah.
Alexa Smith (12:22.587)
Yeah, I mean, I think the work is entirely personal and the early DEI training that I did, know, some of the like certificate work was really about how you can practice telling your own story, which, you know, is the intersectionality of who you are and what you're trying to impart to others. You have to be able to tell that clearly and you have to be able to call on certain things that you've experienced.
to help build empathy, help other people understand that. But the thing that I feel that's important to making change in the American theater is to make it centered on the art. So I think that, you know, if you are coming in and imparting general DEI knowledge to a group of actors on their first day, I guarantee you they already know what microaggressions are and probably have experienced them.
But I think it's more helpful to the artistic process to give them space to talk about what they hope to experience, what values they have and all that within the context of the show. And also talk about how the show is gonna stay with them, how it's gonna lay on them, what they might need to support that. And also talking more about like expectations.
Kira Troilo (13:33.646)
Mm -hmm.
Alexa Smith (13:49.825)
An example I'll tell you is on Hell's Kitchen. I'm also the EDI director for Hell's Kitchen on Broadway. We had a lot of debuts in that cast. We have a fairly young cast. And I say that with great love because it's incredible to see these young, extremely talented people making their Broadway debuts. But we have some really seasoned people who grew up in a Broadway where the norms and the culture was quite different.
Kira Troilo (14:02.112)
Mm
Kira Troilo (14:17.331)
Yes.
Alexa Smith (14:17.782)
And I'm not saying better or worse actually because I think there's something to be learned on both ends of that. So if you've been a seasoned Broadway performer, the idea of calling out is huge. It's not a thing. Yeah, it's just not a thing. And the younger folks have more agency in saying like, I'm actually not gonna walk off stage, puke and then come back on stage. That's not humane for me. And I think that those are really important things for each other to hear.
Kira Troilo (14:23.018)
Mm -hmm.
Kira Troilo (14:29.418)
Yeah, it's not, you don't do it.
Alexa Smith (14:47.299)
and then have the agency to make your own decision about it. Because there's a lot to say about both things. I will say like Keisha Lewis in Hell's Kitchen, I don't know that she's called out yet. And I think for Keisha, it's part of her process to adhere to the eight shows a week. She understands who's Tony winner now. People are really, seeing her name on the marquee and they're getting a ticket to come see her be Ms. Liza Jane.
Kira Troilo (14:50.058)
Love that.
Kira Troilo (15:14.743)
Yes.
Alexa Smith (15:16.069)
That's a huge responsibility. And I think she takes care of herself also. And perfect attendance, you don't get an award for it, but I think the way she thinks about it is in terms of responsibility. And that's something I think that the younger folks love about her. They love seeing how she works, how she does that within an environment of care. So I think you have to look at the makeup of the company.
Kira Troilo (15:29.94)
Mm -hmm.
Kira Troilo (15:40.341)
Hmm -hmm.
Alexa Smith (15:45.733)
deeply at what's going on in the show. We're lucky here. We do so many new pieces. We've got the writers in the room most of the time. And I meet with the writers and the directors and the creative team before I work with the company to also make sure I'm upholding things that are important to them. And so all of that work builds what we do on the first day of rehearsal. And I'll give you an example. We're doing James I'm new play Good Bones, Saheem Ali, who's my
Kira Troilo (15:54.208)
that's great.
Kira Troilo (16:04.596)
Mm -hmm.
Alexa Smith (16:15.715)
associate artistic director colleague is directing it. And James talks a lot about like finding your people. And this is a piece where I want people to understand the journey of finding your people why it's important. So that's how we started our day. Like we did our introductions and then we said, get in small groups and talk about your people. Who are your people? How'd you find them? Are you related to them? Are you not related to them? So it, it activates the play. And then we can talk about values and behaviors and
Kira Troilo (16:26.314)
Hmm.
Kira Troilo (16:40.714)
Mm -hmm.
Alexa Smith (16:45.133)
our boundaries and having agency and all that because we're here at work, which is important, and we're working within the boundaries of the specific piece at this time. So that's how I think about it. And it takes a lot more work, honestly, it takes a lot, but it's what it is.
Kira Troilo (16:51.018)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (16:55.69)
That's right.
Kira Troilo (17:01.737)
It does, but your front, it is, and I love it, it's so in line with what I do. And I always say, you're gonna front load that work so that it's easier the whole rest of the process. Because what happens if you don't do any of that work? You don't talk about values or process or anything.
Alexa Smith (17:10.362)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
Exactly. Yeah, or you plug someone in that just is doing generic sort of DEI training where it has nothing to do with what's actually going to be happening in the room. You know, like to me, we should not be doing that.
Kira Troilo (17:30.634)
No!
100 % agree. And I also love how you said that, like, how are you going to wear this role? How are you going to wear this play? Right? I've had so many conversations that it's like, we just don't address what it is to put yourself in a role and then expose yourself to that every single night. Yeah. So it sounds like you do a lot of care forward work as well.
Alexa Smith (17:40.986)
Yeah.
Alexa Smith (17:51.525)
That's right. That's right.
Alexa Smith (17:57.285)
We do, and I say we because it's very much in the ethos at the public such that I don't feel like it's just carried on my back. The line producers are wonderful here. We are very much in communication. And the other thing is people don't just call like, I'm not feeling great, call Alexa. That's not the order of operations. We say you have your line producers, you have your stage managers, you have your directors.
Kira Troilo (18:05.598)
Love that.
Alexa Smith (18:25.423)
You know, we have a lot of spaces that things come up, but on the back end, we all talk all the time. We get rehearsal reports. If I see something like, huh, what does the stage manager mean by that? I'm curious what happened. Then I can go to the director. was this, there was some tension around that. So we track along the way too. It's a very active process.
Kira Troilo (18:46.331)
Mm -hmm. That's great. Yeah, wow. What does, yeah, I mean, what does a day look like in your life at the public?
Alexa Smith (18:57.803)
Yeah, so it's interesting. So my first title here was Senior Director, Anti -Racism, Equity and Belonging. And then in April of this year, I became Associate Artistic Director and Director of Cultural, thank you, and Director of Cultural Transformation. And that was really to acknowledge a lot of the work I did that was embedded into the artistic process. I'm, listen, like I never dreamed of having this job and it is a dream.
Kira Troilo (19:09.866)
Congratulations.
Alexa Smith (19:27.661)
Every day I walk in here is a dream. So I really start with that. Like I look at the banners, I look at the marquees outside and I like remind myself like, okay, we did it, we're doing it. But for example, I'd say we probably have four meetings a week that are all about artistic things. A couple of them are just about producing like what's coming up. And in those things,
Kira Troilo (19:39.068)
Wow. Yes.
Kira Troilo (19:53.493)
Mm
Alexa Smith (19:56.623)
you know, some of the things I might point out might be like, okay, are we tracking along on our director diversity for next year? Because I remember in a previous conversation, we wanted to make sure that we were balancing out because a lot of the shows came with male directors. So things like that. And we find our way in those discussions. We do a lot of staff learning here. And I have a lot of affinity spaces that I dock in and out of.
Kira Troilo (20:12.501)
Mm -hmm.
Alexa Smith (20:24.591)
They have some budget, so they might say like, hey, we're thinking about having a speaker on this. Can we work with you on bringing that person in? What might we have for budget? So there's a lot of that too. And then there's a couple of projects that I'm working on that are really exciting for down the road. Things like adult education, using Shakespeare to provide like leadership training.
or cultural training through, you know, Othello or Merchant of Venice or things like that where we can take our sort of bread and butter artistic things and pull some other learnings out of it. Rather than say like, we don't do Taming of the Shrew anymore, or it's really hard to do Merchant of Venice right now. Those are still pieces we can use in other ways for learning. And so kind of thinking about on a corporate level, how might that look? Like how might we be able to
Kira Troilo (21:11.722)
Hmm
Alexa Smith (21:19.547)
in part to companies where they are downsizing their DEI departments to still offer some other learnings to them that might fall into more of a cultural element or in the HR department, things like that. So we're always trying to look for outside ways we can help our community, help the industry, and also like where might we be useful where people don't have the resources.
Kira Troilo (21:33.109)
Right.
Kira Troilo (21:45.099)
Yeah, absolutely. And tying it back from your childhood. Like, that's so, I love that so much. Wow. That sounds great, because I think there's so much that other theaters, and hopefully other theater people listening can learn from what the public is doing. You did mention to me off recording about the disability work that you're doing. So I'd love to hear about that as well.
Alexa Smith (21:48.661)
I know. Yeah.
Alexa Smith (22:06.275)
Yeah, yeah, that since I came here, one, when we have cultural transformation subcommittees. So our cultural transformation plan is sort of our strategic plan around the cultural work at the public. And so that was in place when I got here, which is an absolute dream. It was amazing to walk into. But one of the subcommittees was around disability access and advocacy.
Kira Troilo (22:27.242)
Yes.
Alexa Smith (22:35.759)
And it's a robust group. It's front of house folks, operations, budget folks. I it's just like across the organization and people are really invested in it. And one thing that for me has been a big learning curve is how equity actors who are disabled, they have a lot more roadblocks than other actors in that space. And, you know, for example, we've been doing
Kira Troilo (23:01.355)
Mm -hmm
Alexa Smith (23:04.825)
working on an adaptation of Titus Andronicus with the apathete. And it's been incredible because it has artistic sign language in it. And the process is a big part of what we want to document so that other theaters might be able to do their bit of it. But what I learned from that process, for example, is the directors of artistic sign language, which are called DASLs, for them to have a script.
Kira Troilo (23:29.141)
Mm
Alexa Smith (23:32.239)
they can't just go get whichever folio version they want to have. Their scripts are visual. So they're signing and we're videoing the scripts. So they translate the verse into hand shapes that they want to use for a specific meaning, all of that. It's an extremely deeply artistic process. Then they video those segments and that's a script, right? Now,
For equity, anytime we video an actor, we have to pay an additional amount to the actor, which right, good, all of that's fine. The difference is, the inequitable bit is, now there's a cost in a transaction assigned for a deaf person to get their script. There's money involved in that. So, you know, working on Good Bones with James Iames, if Saheem needs a different script, we just get it, we print it, that's it.
Kira Troilo (24:08.586)
Yep.
Kira Troilo (24:28.522)
Yeah. No.
Alexa Smith (24:29.007)
There's no cost assigned to that. It's a very easy fluid process. For the public, we're happy to pay for an actor who is going on video, but the transaction to me for this specific case is not equitable and fair. So we've really tried to push that conversation forward, you know, mostly through equity members because it's their union and their voices are the most important.
But it's one of the things like if a smaller theater wanted to pick up this Titus Andronicus, they might have the additional $2 ,000 or $5 ,000 in their budget. Like that's a real amount. And so to me, there has to be an understanding of like, that's not an equitable practice. And it's not, it's also not about depriving an actor of money. It's about access straight up. So there are really nuanced things like that, that we're trying to get at.
Kira Troilo (25:07.39)
Yeah, that's huge.
Kira Troilo (25:17.824)
That's right.
Alexa Smith (25:24.877)
And the only reason we can get at it is because we do have groups of actors and theater groups like the Apothete and writers like Ryan Haddad, who we've done some of his works here, who we're in constant conversation with. So it's like a very normalized conversation for us. And so many people on the staff are very adept at talking about disabled needs for audience members and for company members.
So, you know, I'm really, I'm in some ways disappointed it's not a bigger discussion in the industry, but I'm not surprised. And so I'm hoping we can, in this case, I really appreciate you like talking about this, because it's one of those things that if we're not talking about it at the public, that we're not setting a standard for others to engage in that conversation too. And they're not easy fixes, but they're very important.
Kira Troilo (26:01.652)
Same, same.
Kira Troilo (26:21.419)
Yeah, absolutely, it's so important. I had an interview with an incredible actor last season who has cerebral palsy. We were using the metaphor of, you know, it's great, you want to have disabled actors, you want them to come to your theater, but what if you cast them, they come, and there's no elevator? And the rehearsals are on the second floor. It's like, okay, so that's sure, you're working toward diversity, but you're literally not giving them the tools that they need in order to do the job. Just simply do the job.
Alexa Smith (26:39.013)
That's right. That's right. Right.
Alexa Smith (26:49.743)
Yeah, it's actually kind of worse. You know, it's worse. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (26:52.584)
Yeah, yeah, it's so much worse. my gosh, yeah, so it's so important. I love that you're, you know, serving as a kind of model for folks because there's a lot more work to do.
Alexa Smith (27:04.891)
We're trying and there's a lot of theaters that are prioritizing pieces that are by disabled artists or inclusive of disabled artists. So I do think as an industry we are getting better. I'm excited to see a lot. mean, Greg Moskola right now is in Henry six at the old globe. He's also in the apotheos hand conceiving this Titus Andronicus we're doing and he works all the time. He has CP as well. So I
think there is more awareness, but like we gotta get moving, you know?
Kira Troilo (27:36.854)
Yes, let's go. Yes. If you had advice for theaters who don't have that budget, know, like that 2000 extra, $2 ,000 or $5 ,000 with the work that you do, and this might be a tricky question. So whatever comes to mind, what would be some of your advice for what's the most effective, you know, if they're really trying to get into some intense EDI or DEI work that makes a difference, what would you suggest?
Alexa Smith (28:06.264)
Yeah, I mean, what I learned from my time at Manhattan School of Music, because we didn't have a, it's a really prestigious school in a lot of ways, but it's not a big budget school. it was kind of like, Alexa, you can do whatever you want. We only have so much money. So I really depended on my network and I was really, really annoying on LinkedIn at getting to people that I could.
talk to, learn from, invite to the school, take them to dinner when I couldn't pay them, like a whole bunch of money. But the goodwill of the theater community is like none other. And I think we forget that, and it's not to say that money isn't important, of course it's important, but I think most of us don't have a huge budget for these things. So we have to be resourceful and we have to be resilient.
Kira Troilo (28:46.58)
Mmm.
Alexa Smith (29:03.371)
and we really have to upskill ourselves a lot. but I think I don't know anyone who I would, reached out to for help or to say, I really enjoyed their podcasts or an article they wrote that didn't write back or, offered to have coffee with me or something. And, and those are the people now that, know, I'll say like Phil Chan is one of those people. He wrote final bow for yellow face.
I think I connected with him on Instagram years and years ago, ordered books for my students. had like a meetup book club type of thing. And Phil's one of those people that now that I do have budget, I invited him to the public last, last spring to present to the staff. So those relationships end up being long, but you know, being scrappy at this work. mean, we all do.
Kira Troilo (29:30.079)
I think I've.
Alexa Smith (29:56.353)
EDI work because it's important to us and it's not important for us to hoard the information. It's important for us to share. so I think the, the more responsibility I get, the more I take it seriously when people like, have a college student who reached out to me earlier this week from a place, I think in like Colorado, that was just like, I read about the public and you probably never respond to this. like, why would I not respond to Like, it's great. You're writing a paper about us. Great.
Kira Troilo (30:04.459)
Yes.
Alexa Smith (30:25.965)
Happy to do that, you know, so I think we just have to be innovative about how we do it. And the other thing I'll say is we have to be persuasive. have to prioritize being persuasive. Even when we know we're right, we must figure out the best entry way to help people understand our perspective. And that is the same. It's an artistic quality as well. think, you know, like that's how we unpack a scene too. What are we trying to get?
Kira Troilo (30:38.644)
Mm -hmm.
Kira Troilo (30:50.858)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Alexa Smith (30:56.057)
You know? Yeah.
Kira Troilo (30:56.614)
Yes, like when a director has to explain concept. You have to get everyone on board and you use different tactics to do that. And before the last question also, is there any work that the public is doing on childcare or kids or, you know, just thinking to your experiences before as a mom who felt like the industry wasn't accessible?
Alexa Smith (30:59.639)
Exactly, Yes, exactly.
Alexa Smith (31:22.371)
Yeah, I mean, listen, I wasn't here before we sort of overhauled the culture of this place. That very much my colleagues were in the trenches before trying to get a lot of that. We have a lot of, I would say a healthy amount of maternity leave. We have what we call self -care days, which I think is amazing. And we have lots of them. They sort of phased out summer Fridays in favor of
Kira Troilo (31:28.928)
Mm
Alexa Smith (31:49.411)
self -care days, which you're welcome to use on Fridays in the summer. But we all work in different ways. So, you know, when I came on board, I noticed a lot of people really do prioritize working from home at the times that they're able to, because when you're in the thick of the season, it's very hard to not be at the theater. But when we're not, we're not. So, you know, I went away for two and a half weeks in August, but I worked a lot of them.
And even I work the whole days, but I had a lot of self -care days. And what I really appreciate about that is I don't have to explain anything, which whether you work at a great place that is very accepting of kids or not, I think especially as women saying I can't work because of a child is still like, there's a lot of tension around that. And you just wonder what are your colleagues thinking of you or that's not fair.
Kira Troilo (32:39.22)
Mm -hmm.
Alexa Smith (32:45.135)
just because she has a kid, like, and these may be things that are in your head, but they're real things. So just like changing my slack status to self -care, I think it's really empowering and it also allows for people who are caregivers another way to have that for themselves too. like, listen, we all need self -care and what that looks like. I mean, I use self -care days sometimes when my daughter is in school because it's
Kira Troilo (32:49.866)
But they're real.
Kira Troilo (33:04.235)
Mm -hmm.
Alexa Smith (33:14.139)
kind of the only time I have my house to myself, right? Sometimes I go for a run in the morning, I'll go get a pedicure, and I'll just watch Bravo, and that feels like self care to me.
Kira Troilo (33:18.325)
Yeah!
Kira Troilo (33:24.651)
Yes. Yeah, and right, like typical moms, we'd use our self care to take care of our kid. you, you mean...
Alexa Smith (33:31.675)
100 % because what am I doing on Saturdays? I'm going to violin lessons and ballet and then I'm coming home and then I'm cleaning and then I'm doing laundry like I am in no way not working. So I think that is it's a way that not only supports parents but really supports others who don't feel like they have the agency to say like I have to take my mom to the doctor or my neighbor is getting treatment. I'm her only ride something like that.
Kira Troilo (33:42.069)
No.
Alexa Smith (34:01.211)
But, you know, it allows us also to not have to talk about all that at work, like we're at work too, you know.
Kira Troilo (34:06.08)
That's right. That's right. You shouldn't have to explain that you need a day. That's so great. I love that. You've given us so many examples of what inclusion can look like, but I wonder from where you are, what you think inclusion, like the future of inclusion in our industry looks like.
Alexa Smith (34:09.709)
Exactly. Yeah.
Alexa Smith (34:23.077)
Yeah, it's a great question. I think one thing that's been sort of shocking to me coming from the public and then working on Health Kitchen on Broadway is how not diverse the offstage life is. So producers, know, all of these things that go into commercial theater, which, you know, we are very proud of Health Kitchen artistically.
you know, any public theater thing that you see on Broadway, artistic integrity shows in that. But Broadway is about something different, something additional, which is making money. And let's do it because like these are the greatest acting jobs for theater actors, you know, and they, they, yeah. So, but, you know, I also went to business school later. I got my MBA a couple of years ago.
Kira Troilo (35:12.299)
That's right.
Alexa Smith (35:22.101)
And so I feel really fluid in both of those spaces, understanding them. But it is like a space where I really want some of the language to be adjusted about how we talk about actors, humans on stage, humans off stage. And what I have observed, because I also have done some work in some of the theatrical groups that produce things, they really want that.
Kira Troilo (35:38.315)
Yes.
Alexa Smith (35:49.839)
Like they really very much want to understand how they can create more equitable spaces and pay attention to the bottom line. And those two things are not at odds. I really believe that. It just takes different types of work, but I haven't yet come into a space where I feel like these people don't get it they don't want to get it. I think they very much do want to get it. And they're not that far off. It's just when you come from nonprofit theater, it's a little jarring sometimes. Like the pace is like,
Kira Troilo (36:08.874)
Mm -mm. Yep.
Alexa Smith (36:19.833)
You know, so I think that's really what I also want to encourage students to think about is like, we need you on stage and off stage and you can do both. Like look at LaShawnes is like producing thing. It's beautiful to see all of these actors just saying like, you know what? I can do that too. And you need my voice. So I really hope that that's like how we're going to start being more multifaceted because there's not.
Kira Troilo (36:32.106)
Yes!
Kira Troilo (36:38.549)
Yep.
Alexa Smith (36:49.069)
I will say too, there's also just not a lot of people that have like, understand what it's like on stage when they're making decisions for people on stage. And inherently, if we're people that have lived that life, we know what a long rehearsal day is like. We know when you're gonna get the best of someone and when you're like, you know what, everyone's tired, so we're just gonna get through it. We know those things.
Kira Troilo (36:57.909)
Right?
Kira Troilo (37:11.254)
We know that. We've been off stage to get sick in the bucket and go back on stage. We've been there. Yes.
Alexa Smith (37:14.957)
Yeah, but like you can literally feel it, right? Like when I go to Hell's Kitchen on like a Saturday, I can feel what number show they're on for the week. You know? Yes, yes, you can feel it. So I think more of those voices are gonna be great and also give some people second acts in their life. I think that's gonna be fabulous.
Kira Troilo (37:24.695)
Mm -hmm. Number seven, just trucking through.
Kira Troilo (37:38.955)
Yeah, and then we have people like Lashans, like you said, who are gonna be now in a position to be louder and saying we need more of us behind the scenes. Yeah, that's great. Thank you so much. Yeah, I feel like I could talk to you all day about this and would love to talk more. I'm so happy about the work that you're doing and where you are. So congratulations on your role and yeah.
Alexa Smith (37:41.55)
I know.
Alexa Smith (37:47.235)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So.
Alexa Smith (38:00.399)
Thank you.
Thank you. And thanks for creating this space to talk about these very specific things that are so important, but you know, we don't all, it's usually the actors and the directors and things. And so I really appreciate the work that you do.
Kira Troilo (38:18.656)
Yeah, thank you so much.
Kira Troilo (38:24.886)
Okay.