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If I asked you to think about shows or movies where disability was represented, you’d likely mention Glee, The Peanut Butter Falcon, or Cost of Living. In two of these, the character is portrayed by an actor with a disability. Disability representation, especially in theater, is something we desperately need to have conversations about. It’s a topic that’s still misunderstood and largely avoided. But I’m hoping to change that with today’s conversation!
Meet Brennan Srisirikul, a talented disabled actor, producer, and advocate!
Brennan and I bonded over coffee and the fact that, while progress has been made when it comes to disability and theater, there’s still work to do. There are many things to consider, such as how can we tell disabled stories better, what is the audition process like for disabled actors, and how can we navigate the topic of disability with kindness. In this vulnerable interview, Brennan makes a beautiful point—disability breeds so much creativity. I know you’re going to love Brennan and this interview, so please—press play and enjoy the show!
In this episode, we cover:
How chorus gave Brennan a sense of belonging as a disabled person
How supported Brennan felt pursuing his theater dreams
How Brennan found a love of art outside of performing
What parts Brennan was able to get as a disabled actor in college and beyond
The progress vs lack of progress with disability representation in theater
The financial burden of being disabled
How Brennan gained his voice and became an advocate for himself
What it’s like auditioning as a disabled person
When Brennan decided to expand his career and impact in theater
How Brennan is making a difference in the disabled community
The value of community theater and Broadway productions
What programs and training are available at the Disabled Down Center
What authentic casting is and how it applies to disabled stories in theater
Examples of shows where a disabled actor could elevate the production and story
How directors and others can do better telling stories of people with disabilities
How to ask questions with kindness and compassion
What’s your biggest takeaway from this episode with Brennan about disability and theater? We’d love to hear from you—find us on social media and say hi!
More About Brennan Srisirikul
Brennan Srisirikul is a disabled producer, actor, and advocate. The creator of Disabled Down Center, a program that spotlights disability in entertainment, he produced a sold-out benefit concert at the Green Room 42 presented by Playbill. He has partnered with Playbill, Matt Ross PR, Marriott, Pearl Studios, MurphyMade, FIVE OHM Productions, and the Green Room 42. A constant collaborator, Brennan works closely with entertainment industry icons such as Aaron Glick and Danielle Pretsfelder Demchick to create content that elevates authentic disability representation in media. Within his Disabled Down Center training program, he has teamed up with top casting directors such as Marci Phillips, Tara Rubin, and Stephanie Klapper, who serve as teaching artists in the free and virtual initiative. Most recently, Brennan produced an evening of selections for 504, The Musical, a fictional telling of the birth of the disabled rights movement. Brennan is proud to be a strong and synergistic disabled voice in the entertainment industry.
Links & Mentioned Resources
Connect with Brennan:
Connect with Kira:
Thanks for joining me on this episode of Inclusive Stages! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help me reach even more theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone.
Thanks to our music composer, Zachary McConnell, and our producer, Leah Bryant.
More about the Inclusive Stages Podcast
Welcome to 'Inclusive Stages' -- the go-to weekly podcast for theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone. We'll chat with actors, directors, designers, scholars, and more about the current landscape of the theater scene and get their thoughts on how we can do better.
Host Kira Troilo will also give you a sneak peek into live EDI coaching sessions and offer actionable tips for creating more equitable, inclusive, and empathetic theater spaces that support and value the diversity of artists and audiences. Join the conversation, and let's collectively shape the future of human-first theater, one stage at a time.
This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you.
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Inclusive Stages podcast follows
Kira Troilo (00:02.37)
Hi Brennan.
Brennan Srisirikul (00:04.875)
Hi Kira, how are you?
Kira Troilo (00:07.118)
Great, how are you doing?
Brennan Srisirikul (00:09.295)
I'm doing pretty good. Thank you for having me.
Kira Troilo (00:11.646)
Of course, I'm so grateful that you're here. I know we've had some scheduling issues, but I'm so happy that we finally get to have this conversation. Yes, and I just met you recently. We had an amazing conversation over coffee, and I was like, I need this person on my podcast ASAP.
Brennan Srisirikul (00:19.895)
Me too.
Brennan Srisirikul (00:29.616)
Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Kira Troilo (00:32.338)
Yeah, no, I mean it and I know everyone will agree when they hear what you have to say. So I'd love to just start off first just by asking the question we ask of all guests. What is your theatre origin story?
Brennan Srisirikul (00:46.263)
Wow. So my theater origin story dates back to August 23rd, 1998 when I saw The Lion King on Broadway. It's the day before my birthday, it was my mom's birthday, cause we share, my mom's the 23rd and I'm the 24th. And so we went to go see The Lion King and I sat in row H of the balcony with my dad. I didn't sit in the accessible seating.
because I was too afraid of the hyenas coming down the aisle. I was terrified. So I didn't. I think my brother or something sat with my mom in the accessible seating, and I sat with my dad on his lap in the balcony. And I remember being so transfixed by the art. And I think subliminally, I thought, wow.
Kira Troilo (01:38.126)
Hmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (01:44.831)
If these people can be like the Savannah, the African Savannah, then I can be anything, I think. And I remember being in the lobby after the show and like tapping on my mom and telling her like, I want to do that.
Kira Troilo (01:50.668)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (01:54.018)
Yeah.
Brennan Srisirikul (02:05.811)
Yeah, and like obviously my dreams and stuff I think have morphed and changed as I've grown and matured and been in this industry so long and yeah, but that's definitely where it started and then I went... then I also have kind of another origin story too that I, if you don't mind me sharing, I had a fabulous middle school chorus teacher.
Kira Troilo (02:05.942)
Yeah, that's amazing.
Kira Troilo (02:27.15)
I would love for you to, yes.
Brennan Srisirikul (02:33.347)
and she really developed my love of singing and performing. And I feel like it's the first time I really had a teacher that really expected a lot of me as a disabled person. Like she expected me to get into the choral festival. Like, you know what I mean? Like, and she prepared me as such, whereas I felt...
Kira Troilo (02:54.567)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brennan Srisirikul (03:01.223)
I feel like a lot of times in school, I was kind of a little bit like left behind. You know? So her name was Doreen Nelson and she since has passed and she just really like made a huge impact. So many other teachers too. But that was like a really...
Kira Troilo (03:09.117)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (03:18.614)
Oh.
Brennan Srisirikul (03:30.283)
a landmark moment for me. You know, because being, back then being disabled didn't feel very good. I like wasn't a part of my peer group. I didn't know where I belong. I really didn't have any friends. So singing was something that like, I was being recognized for like getting into the Junior Senspa, Junior District, all of those like middle school choral festivals.
Kira Troilo (03:41.876)
Mm.
Brennan Srisirikul (04:00.639)
And yeah, just having that expectation like, you will go to the audition, you will get in. Not, yeah, not you'll get in because they feel badly, but you'll get in on your merit. I will help you get there. And I know she was a teacher that knew that there were extra steps in my preparation, you know, because I had things going on with my body.
Kira Troilo (04:05.88)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (04:25.858)
Mm-hmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (04:31.02)
You know.
You know, when you're disabled, there's extra steps. And so it's really nice when we have educators and people who really consider that.
Kira Troilo (04:44.618)
Yeah. When you have that first teacher who really sees you, I mean, that can make a difference in your entire life.
Brennan Srisirikul (04:51.483)
She saw me for sure. And she also, I will say, she said something to me in seventh grade that I didn't understand until like 30 years old. That Brennan, sometimes music and art will take a different place in your life, and that's okay. And back then I was like, what do you mean I will be a performer?
you know what I mean? But now I'm like, oh, I get it because you also have to be an adult.
Kira Troilo (05:21.398)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (05:30.534)
And I'm sure we'll get into how you've taken so many different roads as an artist in your adult life.
Brennan Srisirikul (05:31.329)
Thank you again.
Brennan Srisirikul (05:38.163)
Yeah, but I didn't understand that as a kid. I was like, what do you mean music will take a different, and art will take a different like burner in my life on the stove? Like won't it always be the first thing? And now I'm like, yeah, Mrs. Nelson, I get it. And I'm really grateful that she like imprinted that at like 12.
Kira Troilo (06:03.126)
Yeah, oh, she sounds really special. That's so great.
Brennan Srisirikul (06:05.707)
Yeah. And then I had a great high school drama teachers who really like, again, reinvigorated my love of theater. I actually went to the Tony Awards with my middle school, my high school drama teacher, my senior year. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (06:23.19)
No way! What brought you there?
Brennan Srisirikul (06:26.411)
I mean, the ticket was cheap at that time. I think it was like $25. And it was like my graduation gift from my parents. Yeah, so who knows. I think that's really important for us to understand. We should.
Kira Troilo (06:37.654)
I was gonna, oh. I was gonna ask you how your parents were as you shared your dream with your mom at Lion King. Were they supportive? But it sounds like.
Brennan Srisirikul (06:48.508)
I think yes and no. Like yes, but I also think they definitely thought I was crazy. And like, I wish a little bit, I'm gonna get flack for this, but I wish I had listened to them a little bit. In the way of like, maybe you should get a double major. Maybe you should expand your dream. Maybe it is good to be more, want to be more than one thing in your life.
I didn't get that as a teen. Again I was like, what do you mean I will be a Broadway star?
Kira Troilo (07:28.487)
and you're not alone in that.
Brennan Srisirikul (07:31.067)
And like the truth is, all you young people listening, I'm not trying to kill your dream, my honeys, but it is harder than you would ever imagine.
Brennan Srisirikul (07:46.687)
So you should, you should have a backup plan. You should want to be more than one thing and you should realize that you are smart enough to do more than just five, six, seven, and eight.
Kira Troilo (08:02.882)
Yeah, I couldn't say that better myself. And you and I bonded over the fact that we found love of art outside of performing. And it doesn't mean we don't love to perform or that that's not a path anymore, but there's so much more that we can do.
Brennan Srisirikul (08:03.159)
Yes.
Brennan Srisirikul (08:18.867)
I'm expensive and we're expensive. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (08:21.798)
Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to get ahead of myself. I want to talk to you about all the amazing stuff you're doing now. But do you want to talk a little bit about your journey after high school? Just as an actor? Yeah.
Brennan Srisirikul (08:33.975)
So yeah, yeah. So I trained in acting at Rhode Island College. And what I'm about to say, some people may think is negative, but I'm just like spitting the facts and being real. And this is like stuff that those people know. Everyone knows that it was no secret. But I went to school during a time where we still weren't really training people.
Kira Troilo (08:39.575)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (08:49.955)
Mm-hmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (09:03.363)
with disabilities to do theater or musical theater or acting. So they didn't really know what to do with me, I think. Like, you know, it just was totally new. And I don't blame them, like, but I did feel like a little bit cast aside. Like, I was never cast in the main stage musical. I did one play on the main stage, a very small part. And then I did, like, they're a little like.
Kira Troilo (09:12.127)
Mm.
Brennan Srisirikul (09:32.763)
student devised stuff through the dance company actually. I did like their Christmas show and then we did another like student devised piece which I realized when you devise stuff it's easier to be inclusive right? But a little bit easier. But that's no excuse as to why I couldn't have even been in Pippin or Urington or Fame or any of them or the Dravsie Chaperone.
Kira Troilo (09:50.922)
Yes.
Brennan Srisirikul (10:02.463)
I cried over that one. I was like, I want to play the manager so badly. And I went in there being like, they're gonna give me a shot. And no, but it's okay. But again, like, yeah, it was just a different time. So I don't blame anyone, but it is very interesting to look back and be like, oh, I didn't have the advocacy skills to be like,
Kira Troilo (10:04.117)
Ugh.
Brennan Srisirikul (10:32.239)
I need help in my learning. And like, yeah, or like this isn't working for me, or why am I not in the dance classes? Like, what about that? Like, yeah, why aren't we bringing someone in that can help me? I couldn't do that. I didn't have the voice to do that at that time. And again, this was 2009 to 2013. So like,
Kira Troilo (11:00.942)
Mm.
Brennan Srisirikul (11:02.035)
It was a different time, you know?
Kira Troilo (11:06.232)
Yeah.
But not that long ago, either.
Brennan Srisirikul (11:11.167)
Yeah, but I think, like, I think that's the thing, Kira. Like, I was talking to my mom the other day, and she said, Brendan, you have to realize, like, we've made a little bit of progress as far as disability goes, but not really that much.
Kira Troilo (11:26.934)
Yeah, and what do you, I mean, I can imagine, what do you think she meant by that? Like where have you seen progress versus where you haven't really seen that much progress?
Brennan Srisirikul (11:32.844)
Like...
Brennan Srisirikul (11:37.847)
Um, like, we've seen progress in like basic accommodations, right? Being expected, but like, are disabled people woven into our culture and society? No.
Brennan Srisirikul (11:52.951)
We're not. People are still surprised to see me out for coffee, or dating, or like, you know, and I still get like, oh, you're cute, but the wheelchair. Like, you know what I mean?
So that, that. It's so, disability is so foreign for people, even though anyone can become disabled at any time, for any reason. And then, and I've heard a lot from people that have become disabled later in life, that they kind of become a little bit of a unwanted advocate, like, like kind of like, I didn't sign up for this, which is.
Kira Troilo (12:21.678)
That's right.
Kira Troilo (12:36.379)
Mm-hmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (12:38.063)
True, I didn't either. But I think it's become a little bit easier for me to advocate because I have been disabled and will be disabled forever. So, yeah.
Kira Troilo (12:53.346)
Yeah, I think about, I feel like I use the access, like access for wheelchair users into a building as a metaphor a lot of times for the difference between saying, hey, you can come in to a building or we are going to actually change the system so that you belong and thrive in this environment and this environment was made for you too.
Brennan Srisirikul (13:19.987)
So like, Kira, I think that's the difference between equality and equity, right? Physical access is nearly just scratching the surface.
Kira Troilo (13:30.638)
That's it.
Brennan Srisirikul (13:31.975)
It's access is so simple, but yet so complicated.
Kira Troilo (13:37.646)
Right, because sure, you might be able to walk into the building, but can you succeed at doing the show?
Brennan Srisirikul (13:43.604)
Yes, or, or.
Brennan Srisirikul (13:48.895)
Or I may be able to get in the building, but I'm still going up the elevator with trash.
Kira Troilo (13:56.546)
Right? Right.
Brennan Srisirikul (13:59.979)
You know what I mean?
Kira Troilo (14:00.842)
Right, and that's supposed to be access.
Brennan Srisirikul (14:03.447)
Yes, or I have to bring help with me, but yet I still have to pay for the help to come on a train with me. You know what I mean? Some bus systems are a little bit different where they understand an economy, that kind of financial burden, but not everything. And I don't think access means that we get a hundred percent things for free or whatever, but there are different things to consider. It's not just being able to get in.
It's also providing financial access, because a lot of disabled people don't recall the money.
Kira Troilo (14:40.812)
Right?
Brennan Srisirikul (14:42.503)
And being disabled comes at a financial cost that people often people don't realize.
Kira Troilo (14:49.494)
Right, well you just said even hiring someone to help you on the train. That's a cost.
Brennan Srisirikul (14:56.167)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they have to pay for them to go with me. The same fee that I would. Like, yeah, they give a little bit of a discount but for most people, that's not feasible. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (15:11.15)
Were there any experiences that stand out and you don't have to name places or anything, but any experiences as an actor that kind of moved you to a place where you could advocate more for yourself?
Brennan Srisirikul (15:24.899)
think just seeing right that oh
The spectrum of disability that we're seeing in the media is so narrow, right? And we're really only seeing those who are palatable enough to maybe, uh, make the audience feel comfortable. Yet, disability is expansive. Um, so really like seeing that and recognizing like, Oh, like you want to show disability on Glee.
But you don't want to hire a dude that actually sings and dances and is disabled. See, you know what I mean? You don't want to have to put in that work because accommodations cost money.
Brennan Srisirikul (16:17.279)
Yeah. And then just like auditioning and stuff. You know, when I was really into auditioning, I was often the only disabled person in those waiting rooms. And I thought a lot about that too.
Kira Troilo (16:29.527)
Mm-hmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (16:36.631)
You know what I mean? And the reaction from the other auditioners. I'm like, oh, I never thought about someone in a chair actually like performing.
Kira Troilo (16:42.606)
Mmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (16:52.831)
And like, you're actually pretty good. Like, you know, I would get a lot of that. Like, wow. But I think that's like good. It expands your mind, but it really like, made me think like, I want to see more. I don't wanna be the only person who's disabled at a random ECC. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Or like when I have...
Kira Troilo (16:56.494)
You're like, yeah, I am.
Brennan Srisirikul (17:22.247)
One time we went on audition and like, there are incredible wheelchair dancers in this world, but I am not one of them. Like, I wouldn't be a wheelchair mover. Like, I'm like a wheelchair non-dancer. And I remember like, they asked me to do like the dance call and I was like, this is so foolish. Can I just do the mon- like, can I just do a monologue?
because I'm gonna embarrass myself doing this kabuki combination that I like clearly can't do, like, you know?
Kira Troilo (18:03.918)
Oh, yeah.
Brennan Srisirikul (18:05.903)
stuff like that or like even like going to auditions where they're asking for disability and then clearly seeing in their eyes I'm too disabled for what they want
Kira Troilo (18:18.67)
That infuriates me and I've seen it. I've seen it happen and it's so.
Brennan Srisirikul (18:22.437)
I was going to have it.
Kira Troilo (18:26.31)
It's despicable, but like, how can you ask to see something on stage and then the person who embodies that is two, quote unquote two?
Brennan Srisirikul (18:27.567)
I'm not sure.
Brennan Srisirikul (18:37.616)
And like people can argue like oh it's your talent like sure that is a factor But you can see it in people's eyes like their eyes tell the story You know you know the deal. I've been around the block like for over 30 years so I Definitely can tell like when oh Your reality is not what I expect
Kira Troilo (19:03.482)
Mm-hmm. Right, and when you actually get in the room versus their idea of how they can be inclusive. Mm-hmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (19:09.531)
or seeing my head shot or like you know what I mean? Yeah.
Kira Troilo (19:14.634)
Yeah. What did you, so I don't think pivot is the right word, but when did you decide to expand in terms of your, yeah.
Brennan Srisirikul (19:23.709)
Expand. And I was like, I'm getting old.
Kira Troilo (19:28.524)
And old for theater is not actually old.
Brennan Srisirikul (19:30.891)
getting old. I'm getting old and this is like a young person's thing and like um I don't book jobs so like even if I were to book one job what in the world would make me think that I would keep booking jobs to have a career?
Brennan Srisirikul (19:51.063)
Because if you book one job, there's no guarantee that you'll ever book anything again. And I was like, oh, I'm smart and I also like to be involved. Because I feel often so excluded in life. So I want to be included. I want to make a difference. And I'm not saying you cannot make a difference through acting, but...
I was telling somebody the other day, I just think I'm more useful... ..behind the table.
Kira Troilo (20:25.614)
Hmm. There's more agency.
Brennan Srisirikul (20:27.827)
And I'm fine with that. There's more agency I can actually like affect change. And it doesn't have to be about how I look either.
because I being in a
Brennan Srisirikul (20:46.679)
What am I trying to say? In the spirit of being vulnerable, I've had body image issues. I think we all have had body image issues in the theater industry, especially, or entertainment. And so yeah, there was a period where I didn't want it at all to be about how I looked like. I hated looking at self-tapes. I hated doing them, stuff like that. Now I'm a little bit better. I might go to an audition.
Strong Word might. But yeah, just realizing I have more to offer the world than a 5, 6, 7, 8.
Kira Troilo (21:28.667)
And it's an and. Yeah.
Brennan Srisirikul (21:32.539)
Yes, yes and following the like the rule of improv that we'd like don't negate we just add
I basically just wanted to reach for more.
Kira Troilo (21:48.27)
I love that. And what did that start to look like for you?
Brennan Srisirikul (21:50.831)
Thank you.
What did that start to look like for me?
Well, I've always kind of had like a little bit of a business-y mind. Even like going back to high school and being like class president. Like I did so many fundraisers that didn't cost us any money. Like only profit like, ugh. You know and like to fundraise for the drama club and stuff. I was like really good at selling the Macy's coupons that we had to sell.
Kira Troilo (22:14.403)
Wow.
Brennan Srisirikul (22:28.311)
Um, and so I just was like, maybe I should like start doing some like leadership producing stuff in the theater. Um, and then I was like, you know what, I really want to affect change for the disabled community because we're only seeing a handful of people. And there's a plethora of people out there with so much talent but no opportunity to show it. And so I created Disabled Down Center.
program that I run through a larger nonprofit to spotlight disability and entertainment. We do that through kind of a three-pronged approach. Performance, special events, and a virtual training program because I'm really passionate about the fact that performing arts training is real expensive and unattainable for most. And if we don't provide...
Kira Troilo (23:20.198)
Mm-hmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (23:26.835)
A little bit of leeway with that, we'll have no more performing artists.
Kira Troilo (23:32.947)
100%.
Brennan Srisirikul (23:34.309)
because the whole thing will become unattainable.
Kira Troilo (23:37.058)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brennan Srisirikul (23:38.899)
even in community theater like in the train.
Kira Troilo (23:42.039)
Yeah.
Brennan Srisirikul (23:43.295)
even if you want to do it at community theater. And that's important too, because people go to see that. And that's another thing kids, I want to say, Broadway is not the only place to make theater.
Brennan Srisirikul (23:58.103)
Like it can be community theater and it can be just as good.
Kira Troilo (24:04.782)
Exactly. The difference? Okay, please go ahead.
Brennan Srisirikul (24:08.355)
But I didn't understand that when I was young.
I thought if you didn't make PryWave, you failed.
Brennan Srisirikul (24:18.871)
but there's so much good theater happening everywhere.
Like, young kids, theater can happen in your bedroom.
inviting your parents as the audience. You know, it can be, and that can be just as valid as going to see Beetlejuice.
Kira Troilo (24:43.022)
Yeah, it is so true. And especially in the work that I do, like there's very little difference from community to Broadway. It's really, you know, people who have a full-time job or, you know, whatever else, they have theater for them is three days a week versus, you know, eight shows a week at a professional level.
Brennan Srisirikul (25:03.055)
Yeah, it doesn't have to be your job to be like, um, valuable or make an impact or even be professional.
Kira Troilo (25:13.335)
Right.
Brennan Srisirikul (25:14.675)
I think we can make space on the plate for everything. And that's why it's really encouraging to me that theater companies are starting to wake up and say, oh wow, people need jobs. So we need to hold rehearsals at night. Like asking people to quit their job or whatever they're doing for a month contract is unsustainable for people. They can't in the world that we live in. Like, and...
that also you don't have to suffer to be an artist.
Kira Troilo (25:47.946)
No, you shouldn't have to. You shouldn't have to. And like you said, it's like we...
Kira Troilo (25:56.87)
There's very little agency. Like just because you get one contract doesn't mean you're gonna get another contract. There's no security. No.
Brennan Srisirikul (26:04.051)
It's not linear. None of it is linear. And...
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (26:13.302)
What kinds of different, when you train actors through your program, are there, what does that look like? How do you hold those?
Brennan Srisirikul (26:19.521)
OK.
Brennan Srisirikul (26:22.703)
So I need to be clear that I'm not the one doing the trading. I'm just the facilitator of the producer of the class. So we invite top industry professionals to teach these one-off virtual master classes on Zoom that are both for disabled performers and on disabled allied performers too, because I come from the school that inclusion is about everyone and inclusion includes everyone.
Kira Troilo (26:27.126)
Yes.
Brennan Srisirikul (26:51.491)
And if we're not talking about everyone, then we're not doing it right. And the truth of the matter is, yes, we want to center disability, but the God-honest truth is that there are more non-disabled people in this world than there are disabled folks, so we need allies. And the only way to do that is to invite
Kira Troilo (27:10.328)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (27:17.17)
Amen. That is what we're all about here. Yeah, we need help.
Brennan Srisirikul (27:21.979)
We need help. We need help. We need people to say, enough, we will not patronize unless you A, B, and C. Or you better get access. Or we need allied performers and artists to be like, why should a deaf person only be able to go to these select performances? What if they want to go with their friend?
Kira Troilo (27:51.67)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (27:51.895)
on a random night of the week, they should be able to do that. Or for me as a wheelchair user, I shouldn't have to not go to the show because the four wheelchair spaces you have are already sold and there are a bunch of other suits that are available. Like we need to find a way to make it flexible so that people have choice.
You know, because if I could sit in the regular seat, I would!
Kira Troilo (28:26.635)
Right.
Kira Troilo (28:30.394)
And yeah, yes. If I could, I would. Just let me go when I wanna go.
Brennan Srisirikul (28:36.799)
Yeah, or with my friend, or like when my friend can go, like, or so that more than, I can bring more than just a companion, because you know, or something like that, because people go with friends, often in a large group. And I'd like to do that too.
Kira Troilo (28:40.536)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (28:45.431)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (28:59.038)
Yeah, no, one of the big takeaways for me when we chatted over coffee was the, we're both very like-minded on inclusion is for everyone. And just, you know, when you're elevating or amplifying or focusing on the disabled community, we also need to look at the people who are around them. Right, because if we don't, right, we don't talk to other.
Brennan Srisirikul (29:20.352)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (29:23.43)
Like you said, non-disabled actors who are working with disabled actors, how do we expect that environment to be inclusive when they don't know what they're doing or if there's any way that they can be helping? Or creatives, like able-bodied creatives on production teams. So yeah, I mean how...
Brennan Srisirikul (29:39.414)
Yes.
Brennan Srisirikul (29:43.523)
But I think that's the key that...
Like we can't be making disabled stories with production teams that only include non-disabled people. That cannot be because disability is a culture.
Kira Troilo (29:53.814)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (29:57.095)
100%.
Brennan Srisirikul (30:08.683)
I was listening to a interview with Denzel Washington and he said, sure anyone could have directed Schindler's List, but Steven Spielberg is Jewish.
being Jewish is a culture, like being black is a culture. And like, yeah.
Kira Troilo (30:28.226)
Hmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (30:35.807)
And so is disability a culture. Yeah, yeah. And I'm not saying that non-disabled people can't understand it, but I don't think...
Brennan Srisirikul (30:52.319)
Yeah, it's a culture, yeah. I don't wanna say, I don't wanna gatekeep and say that they can't or can't have a window into it, but the truth is like, when the chips are down, yeah, we're a culture and disabled people, we want to have a say in how we're being represented and to add even more complexity to that, like.
Kira Troilo (30:55.138)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (30:58.944)
No!
Kira Troilo (31:17.474)
Yes.
Brennan Srisirikul (31:21.187)
Disability is so individual. So I just want to say, like, I'm not an expert. I come from my experiences and, you know, and that's pretty much it. And then ask around for the rest. Thank you.
Kira Troilo (31:31.822)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (31:37.918)
Yeah, oh, absolutely. Yeah, and I, yeah, I don't wanna, I'm definitely not comparing race to disability, but just for show's sake, I'm thinking of the difference between like, doing a production of the color purple. It's about a black community, so it's important that you have a black director on that. But if you're doing...
Brennan Srisirikul (31:59.071)
Yeah, but for example, like when the color purple has been on Broadway, both directors I think have been white men. And I'm not saying that white people can't, I mean I'm not black so I can't really speak to this but you can speak to this better Cura but I am.
Kira Troilo (32:10.44)
Yep.
Brennan Srisirikul (32:20.983)
I'm not saying they can't do a fine job. There's just a piece of it that is missing. That's what I meant. There's a piece of it that's missing. And there's a piece that will always be missing.
Kira Troilo (32:30.221)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (32:34.05)
That's right. That's right, I fully agree with that. Mm-hmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (32:37.911)
Yeah, that's what I meant to say before when I say that, you know, it's a thing, but strange when you put on disabled work and no one really on the creative team is disabled to like guide that work.
Kira Troilo (32:52.63)
Right. Yeah, exactly. And I was gonna say like the difference between.
Brennan Srisirikul (32:57.819)
from a cultural standpoint.
Kira Troilo (33:02.698)
Right, right. Yeah, and like, but the difference between a culture, a piece that is about a culture, so a play that is about like a disability culture versus let's say just like the sound of music or just any show. I'm thinking of like a show where we wanna do color conscious casting or different abilities or different ability conscious casting. Yeah, so like.
Brennan Srisirikul (33:26.379)
ability conscious cat conscious cat.
Kira Troilo (33:32.066)
How do we handle, and this is an open question, you know, I'm working on this, like how do we handle that when, you know, for example, like a show like Parade has, you know, a few black folks in it, but it's a Jewish story. So, you know, like, kind of like educating those directors, you know, those production team members on how to work with the black community in their cast, you know, or how-
Brennan Srisirikul (33:59.083)
Well, I think the number one word that comes to my mind is collaboration. And have it being resourceful and reaching out and getting different perspectives. It's okay if you don't know, but if you don't seek the answers because you think you know, that's when I think there's an issue.
Kira Troilo (34:03.566)
Mmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (34:23.755)
And I think there's a lot of that in the society at large. Just because of social media, people think they're an expert in everything. I'm being serious.
Kira Troilo (34:39.183)
I agree. I fully agree. Yep. Yeah, instead of actually just having the bravery to have the conversation and say when you don't know something.
Brennan Srisirikul (34:50.539)
Yeah, and actually educate yourself and be a student of life.
Yeah. And I guess it's okay if you mess up. It's the way you go about it, you know, like anything.
Yeah. So like, yeah, I think disability breeds so much creativity. Like I would love to see, I don't know.
Brennan Srisirikul (35:26.128)
Ah, outwards! Have a disability!
Kira Troilo (35:30.134)
Yes!
Brennan Srisirikul (35:32.919)
You know? Because that makes so much sense! Because people with disabilities not only can be beautiful, but they're also severely underestimated! Just like Elle! And guess what? People with disabilities also have service dogs! So why couldn't Bruiser be a service dog?
Kira Troilo (35:33.654)
Right?
Kira Troilo (35:45.206)
Yes, it makes so much sense.
Kira Troilo (35:58.702)
Someone better get on this quick.
Brennan Srisirikul (36:01.143)
For real! But doesn't it make so much sense? It would elevate that piece so much. Even sound and music. Having a disabled Maria maybe who uses a wheelchair.
just so curious about life.
Kira Troilo (36:25.12)
It, it.
Brennan Srisirikul (36:26.455)
Like, and don't give me the argument like you can't bring a wheelchair onto a mountain because it's a musical.
Kira Troilo (36:32.662)
We can do anything.
Brennan Srisirikul (36:34.671)
Because of the music, when people are singing and dancing, all bets are off, okay?
Kira Troilo (36:44.054)
Oh my gosh, yeah, it's just putting that extra thought into, how does this deepen our story?
And how does this help us? Yeah.
Brennan Srisirikul (36:54.668)
Yeah. Like, I had a friend who was auditioning for something rotten. And I think she was up for the, I don't know, the characters, but the character starts, P-P-P-P-Porsche? Porsche. And I guess they had told her she didn't get the part because, you know, back in those days people with disabilities would not be whatever.
Kira Troilo (37:08.502)
B, a Porsche, yep.
Brennan Srisirikul (37:24.179)
And my answer was literally singing and dancing. What are you talking about? This is a musical.
Kira Troilo (37:33.038)
It's embarrassing.
Uh, no, I'm... It's a musical!
Brennan Srisirikul (37:37.299)
This is musical! We're supposed to already be suspending our disbelief!
Yeah, truly.
Kira Troilo (37:47.606)
and were there not disabled people in the 1500s?
Brennan Srisirikul (37:51.935)
I mean, disabled people have existed forever, so yes. But. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (37:56.433)
Oh my god.
Kira Troilo (38:03.16)
What would you say to casting people, creatives behind the table on how they could do better in terms of telling stories with folks with disabilities?
Brennan Srisirikul (38:15.163)
I would say the excuse of we couldn't find them doesn't work anymore. If you can't find them, call me, we'll find them. Yeah, we'll find them. The depth and breadth of the disabled community is vast.
Brennan Srisirikul (38:38.895)
And the talent level, like some of the best I've ever seen. Here, I have to tell you a story. So I do the disabled downtown and master class and I don't think I finished my thought before, so I'll finish my thought now.
Kira Troilo (38:56.078)
Please.
Brennan Srisirikul (39:07.543)
I bring in top casting directors and industry professionals. Like so far we've had Marcy Phillips from ABC, Tara Rubin from Tara Rubin Casting, Huda Six and MJ and all those wonderful shows and did Phantom of the Opera for years. We had Stephanie Clapper from Stephanie Clapper Casting. And then in April, we're having Disney Live Entertainment.
Kira Troilo (39:25.251)
Mm-hmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (39:36.079)
come do a master class. And so anyway, speaking of just fabulous actors, there's this teenage woman from London who asked where Kira is the next Meryl Streep. And when I watched her tape to like perform in the master class, I was like, this is why I do this.
Kira Troilo (39:48.336)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (40:04.112)
Mmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (40:04.335)
to give people like that exposure. She's so brilliant, but people would probably pass her off over, you know? And also like geographically, socioeconomically, that plays into the opportunities people have. And so...
Kira Troilo (40:31.789)
Right.
Brennan Srisirikul (40:32.783)
for her to come into that master class with Marcy Phillips. And Marcy Phillips say, how old are you? 16 years old. And Marcy go, it's good that you know what you should be doing with your life. It's so clear that you should be an actress. Like, that's the stuff. And like I said, it's not only her. That's just one story of many, people with disabilities who just need.
opportunity. And like one of my main missions as a producer is to show the spectrum of disability and not what makes people comfortable.
Kira Troilo (41:03.643)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (41:16.827)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (41:20.63)
because the spectrum is real. What makes people comfortable isn't what's real.
Brennan Srisirikul (41:22.985)
Yeah
Yeah, I mean, and those people who are considered more palatable than others obviously are valid too, but
The spectrum is wide. I want to see someone who uses a communication device on Broadway.
Kira Troilo (41:42.67)
Yeah.
Brennan Srisirikul (41:44.211)
And like, as an audience, we will wait.
Brennan Srisirikul (41:51.495)
That's like where my mind is at. Cause people would not do that. But those people exist.
Kira Troilo (41:53.706)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (42:01.836)
right.
Brennan Srisirikul (42:02.091)
and they deserve to be seen too.
Kira Troilo (42:06.218)
Yep, and we, I think as people who make theater, have a responsibility to show people, you know, real human life. And if we don't show the spectrum, like you say, then audiences aren't going to know it, and then we won't learn more about how these stories can be more real, right?
Brennan Srisirikul (42:29.259)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's about exposure.
Kira Troilo (42:31.894)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (42:36.238)
I want to ask you, I want to ask you our final question, but before that, is there anything else that you are just like, I need to make sure I share this today?
Brennan Srisirikul (42:46.738)
Um...
Yeah, just remember that disability is a general term to describe a million of presentations and within each individual disability, there's also a spectrum, which makes disability so individual. And so yeah, just realizing disability is vast, individual, and ultimately like a spectrum.
Brennan Srisirikul (43:21.139)
End that, end that, end that.
Brennan Srisirikul (43:29.523)
Authentic representation. So.
And go authentic representation goes beyond just saying like, um, they have a disability because of the fact that disability is so general, but the term disability is so general.
Kira Troilo (43:54.858)
And would you suggest that people ask when they don't know? Like ask questions, how would you like to be?
Brennan Srisirikul (44:04.799)
I think that what ask questions in what scenario.
Kira Troilo (44:09.29)
I think of like, you know, there's a lot of folks who... Yeah, well, people who don't want to say the wrong thing, or, you know, are still using incorrect terms, or, you know, like, to ask, like, do you prefer disabled? Do you prefer I use your more specific?
Brennan Srisirikul (44:11.508)
of performance.
Brennan Srisirikul (44:24.747)
I mean, I think in those terms, right, it's really important to recognize, like we don't really use the word handicapped anymore. You don't say differently abled or disability. So I would say in a general way, it's good to start off with terms disabled. And for example, like I like to just say,
Kira Troilo (44:36.684)
Right.
Brennan Srisirikul (44:52.783)
disabled and non-disabled. Because like a lot of people are like, oh, it's disabled and abled, but that doesn't seem clear enough for me. It's still like, okay, like.
Kira Troilo (45:03.922)
Mm-hmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (45:09.747)
Yeah, for me I think it's awkward. And again, like beyond just using the words disabled and non-disabled, within that, like there are so many other, there are so many specific terms to describe each disability that we could also be using. You know what I mean? I don't wanna say as the second step, kind of. You know what I mean? Disabled and non-disabled.
Kira Troilo (45:12.843)
Yeah.
Brennan Srisirikul (45:39.555)
the beginning and then once we unravel that there's a plethora of other terms to use. And I think just asking people like what they're comfortable with because for me I like disability focused language because I am disabled. And I think from where I'm sitting I think we're training people's ears.
Kira Troilo (46:03.618)
Yes. Mm-hmm.
Brennan Srisirikul (46:04.879)
to hear it, to value the word, and to not say, oh, I'm scared, or to say, like, I don't see you as disabled. No, I'm pretty sure you see I'm disabled.
Kira Troilo (46:17.536)
Right, and I am, so...
Brennan Srisirikul (46:19.511)
And I am, yeah. And I also like don't think use, like, yeah. I would never say like I'm a person with Asian, of Asian descent. I would say I'm Asian. Just like I would say I'm disabled. So like that's why I don't use person with a disability because I think there are a couple of givens. Like it's a given that disabled people are people.
And it's a given that it's individual because disabled is a general term. So, um, but again, it's, I think it's all personal preference and I'm no expert. So I think just asking with an open heart is the first step and also starting with using disabled.
Kira Troilo (47:07.15)
I love that. No, thank you so much. That's so helpful. And what I hear you say when you say, I am Asian, I am disabled, that is an identity, I hear. An identity, yes, yes. That's the main difference, I think, between I'm a person with and I am this person.
Brennan Srisirikul (47:16.404)
It's my identity, yeah.
Brennan Srisirikul (47:24.339)
Yes, yes, and it's not no shame against people that like to use the other. I get it. But for me, in my 32 years of experience, I really am trying to get people to recognize the value in the word disabled and what it means. And it doesn't mean that I'm dissing my ability. It's just simply saying, you know, there are things within my body that are different and to be considered and valued.
Kira Troilo (47:30.41)
Yeah, yep.
Kira Troilo (47:55.082)
and valued, that's powerful. So what does inclusion look like to you going forward? Very big question, but yeah, what have you got?
Brennan Srisirikul (48:03.871)
Oh my god, someone with and I don't think I mentioned this in the podcast, but I have cerebral palsy and user wheelchair. It's kind of late to mention that.
Kira Troilo (48:11.826)
Oh, that's okay. I think you mentioned it. I think you mentioned cerebral palsy, but maybe not your wheelchair.
Brennan Srisirikul (48:17.071)
Did I? I can't remember. Anyway, so what inclusion looks like for me? I think inclusion looks like for me the day where we don't.
where we recognize disability in any other minority group as truly a part of the fabric of our world so that we take pride in including people. It's not like an obligation.
Brennan Srisirikul (48:58.115)
that it really is a source of pride that we are inclusive, not just something we have to do.
Brennan Srisirikul (49:07.44)
And inclusion, I think, is again, when we're including everyone in the conversation.
Brennan Srisirikul (49:16.695)
within certain parameters, right? Yeah.
Kira Troilo (49:22.318)
It's beautiful, that's perfect. It is, and it's, and we should. I mean, if we can at least start to rethink our storytelling and open our eyes to possibility, then we open ourselves up to so much more.
Brennan Srisirikul (49:38.751)
Oh yeah, and I also want people to know maybe this is a perfect place to leave this podcast today, but there is so much artistic merit in disability.
Brennan Srisirikul (49:51.471)
It's created by nature.
Brennan Srisirikul (49:55.791)
And there's so much beauty in it too. In the frustration and the joy. Truly it's like mixing the bitter with the sweet as they say.
Kira Troilo (50:09.802)
I couldn't say it better, so yeah, I am gonna let you be the last word. That is really beautiful. And just thank you so much for your care. Yeah, oh my goodness, your vulnerability, your just sharing and your compassion. Yeah, I truly am so grateful and I'm excited to continue our conversations.
Brennan Srisirikul (50:18.927)
Thanks, Karen. Appreciate you.
Brennan Srisirikul (50:29.652)
Yeah. Sure. I appreciate you. Sure. Thank you. Thank you everybody. Bye.
Kira Troilo (50:34.242)
Thank you so much Brennan. Bye.
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