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Inclusion consultants aren’t new, but they are newer to the theater industry. There hasn’t been any one person the cast and crew of a production could go to for help navigating or mediating a conflict or difficult conversation. But not anymore! EDI (or DEI) work has entered the theater and other creative spaces. And today, I want to share more about my work in this industry.
Inclusive Stages isn’t just the name of this podcast—it’s also a brand, a framework, and a movement. It’s my answer to what we’ve been desperately in need of in performance and rehearsal spaces, in theater, in the arts. My hope is for you to leave this episode so inspired! Because, theater friend, we’re going to change the industry—one stage at a time!
In this episode, we cover:
The most overlooked part of EDI work
Questions to ask to be more inclusive in theater spaces
Why inclusion consultants are so needed in theater and in other creative spaces
How to become an inclusion consultant
What Inclusive Stages is all about, what to expect, and who it’s for
Are you fired up and ready to join me? I hope so, and I’d love to hear from you! Please say hi on Instagram or Facebook!
Links & Mentioned Resources
CONNECT with Kira:
Thanks for joining me on this episode of Inclusive Stages! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help me reach even more theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone.
Thanks to our music composer, Zachary McConnell, and our producer, Leah Bryant.
More about the Inclusive Stages Podcast
Welcome to 'Inclusive Stages' -- the go-to weekly podcast for theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone. We'll chat with actors, directors, designers, scholars, and more about the current landscape of the theater scene and get their thoughts on how we can do better.
Host Kira Troilo will also give you a sneak peek into live EDI coaching sessions and offer actionable tips for creating more equitable, inclusive, and empathetic theater spaces that support and value the diversity of artists and audiences. Join the conversation, and let's collectively shape the future of care-forward creative spaces, one stage at a time.
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Inclusive Stages podcast follows
Kira Troilo (00:04.598)
Hello, theater friends. Welcome to Inclusive Stages, the podcast for theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers. I'm so grateful that you're here. Today, it's just me. This is gonna be... Start over.
Kira Troilo (00:24.066)
Today it's just me, my first time being solo, so bear with me, I'm a little nervous, but I'm really excited because in the first episode, which if you haven't listened, please go back, I chatted with my best friend Rachel about how I got to where I am and who I am. And at the end of that, I started to share a bit about what inclusive stages is, where it came from, why I'm...
why I'm doing this work I'm doing here and what is the work I'm doing? So I wanted to really dive deep into that. I wanna really explain to you what Inclusive Stages is because it's not just the title of this podcast, it's also a brand new brand. It is a framework, it is a movement, it is my answer to what we've been needing in performance and rehearsal spaces forever.
that we haven't had. I have been doing the work of equity, diversity, and inclusion in theater for quite a while now. I have my own business that I started in 2022, that's called Art and Soul Consulting. And I, you know, through that, or, and through that company, I do, you know, work with organizations. I do coaching work, I do.
EDI audit work, I do workshops where I work with volunteers and boards and staff and all sorts of arts folks, administrators, artists. But the work that I started doing was that inside of rehearsal rooms and shows.
And I started, as I started doing that work, I started to kind of create a framework for what was the work I was going in to do. And it really started out as there is no support here, there's no human being in charge of wellbeing or culture or conflict, or how are we gonna bring these diverse groups of people together to tell these diverse stories?
Kira Troilo (02:36.854)
It was kind of a culmination of, you know, there's no HR, there's no support, but there's also no equity, diversity, and inclusion work happening inside of these rooms. There's a lot of that work happening at the organizational level where we're seeing, you know, we're seeing companies with anti-racism action plans and we're seeing a focus on hiring more people of color and being more inclusive with access and all of these things.
But inside the room where we create the art, there is no person dedicated to the work of bringing that room together. So that's kind of what I've been doing the past few years, just going in and filling that gap that I saw. Like, what does everyone need? It started with, we don't have guidelines to hold a room together. So when we all gather as artists, we just, we're gonna start a play.
We just assume we all have the same set of rules in our heads about how it's gonna work. We all assume a lot of things about each other, a lot of knowledge that we assume. So first things first, you know, I started going into rooms and saying, let's have a half hour conversation about what this room is. What's the show we're doing? Who are the people who are gathered here? What are our values? What's our mission? Apart from doing the show, how do we wanna feel in the room?
What do we want to do when conflict arises? You know, just having that initial conversation is so important. So that's just one example of something that became clear to me as I started doing this work is, you know, there needs to be someone there to take charge and hold the culture of the room as importantly as the art that we're creating in the room. So what is inclusive stages?
It is, in short, it's the long overdue answer to a question that we've danced around for decades and I've already pointed to it. Why isn't there a job dedicated to the support and care of humans in creative work? So I created inclusive stages as a framework for the actual equity, diversity and inclusion work that needs to happen inside the rehearsal and performance spaces.
Kira Troilo (04:56.598)
It's also a roadmap for prioritizing humans while creating art and community. But most of all, it's, I hope, a movement geared toward a crucial shift in how we operate in the theater and entertainment industry. We, as an industry, are thought of as being progressive and creative and, you know, all the forward thinking things. And yes, we are, but...
the bones of the industry, you know, what happens on a day-to-day basis. Every person who's involved in the theater and performance world knows that we're really far behind in a lot of areas, and particularly the care of humans area. And we've tried, you know, there's been a lot of efforts over, you know, over decades.
You know, the most recent I can think of is the movement toward intimacy directors and coordinators and consultants, which has been amazing. It's like, OK, in the past, we would just say, let's do this sex scene and then have no support, have no one there to talk about boundaries or consent or what's OK or what's too far. And now we have that. That's becoming more standard. So we have.
you know, this new position that's helping folks navigate intimate moments on stage and on screen. But in terms of just the greater care and wellbeing and culture of these environments, especially making efforts to gather more diverse groups, we're not actually investing in that, in the care of the humans, and what do humans need when they come together?
humans who are very different come together to tell different stories. So in short, the work of inclusive stages is to keep the arts thriving while breaking down these inequitable systems and caring for creatives, one stage at a time.
Kira Troilo (07:19.938)
So I mentioned that I realized very quickly in doing this work that I couldn't do it alone. My big goal was to see the care of humans being prioritized in every creative space. I wanted to start with theater because that's my world, that's where I am and where I have the most.
information and experience, you know. But I wanted to see this work standardized, and I thought, well, if I want to see it standardized, then I have to create a roadmap for the work, and I have to teach other people how to do it. And I have, really, I have two big jobs. I have to teach why it's important, which I do when I go to any space. I think most of the times I hear, why hasn't this existed before? Why haven't we had a position
care for humans and creative spaces. And I have to also educate the folks who don't understand that they're equipped to do this job. I didn't know that I was equipped to do this job until I started doing it and realized, oh, yeah, of course I need a basis in equity, diversity, and inclusion, but I also need to know just how people work and how to make change. So you know, this combined with, you know, thinking about...
how divisive diversity, equity, and inclusion work, DEI, EDI, DEIB, and whatever you want to call it, it's become in the world just kind of divisive for all the wrong reasons. And I'll talk more on that in another episode. That's a whole other can of worms. But it led me to think about what is the role of this person that I want to create inclusive stages for? Who is going to hold this work in a room?
And I've been doing the work as an EDI consultant, as an equity, diversity, and inclusion consultant. But to me, the main part of that was important that is getting missed, it's kind of getting overshadowed by the diversity aspect, is inclusion. And let me talk a little bit more about that.
Kira Troilo (09:29.306)
I think a lot of times when people see diversity at equity inclusion work, they just see diversity. And yes, obviously diversity is crucial. We need to start seeing more representation of underrepresented identities and marginalized communities on stages and on screen. And we've gotten that memo. I mean, there's colorful casts everywhere. You know, obviously there's more work to do. However, that is the diversity work.
People confuse that with the equity and the inclusion part. And really the inclusion part, to me, is creating systems behind the scene that support the diversity that we have in the space or the diversity we want to welcome in the space. So to me, it's equity systems that we're creating plus diversity, people who are different for all different kinds of reasons, that equals inclusion.
So diversity is part of the journey and inclusion is the goal. Okay, and when we talk about inclusion, we talk about every person, no matter where they come from or who they are, feeling like they belong in that environment and feeling like they have what they need in order to thrive at work.
I don't understand how inclusion can be divisive. I think it's just a no-brainer. So for me, because inclusion is a combination of equity working for diversity, then really inclusion is the takeaway.
So instead of people thinking, oh, we need an EDI consultant, or we need a DEI consultant because we're doing the color purple, or because we're doing in the heights, or because we're doing a show with people of color at the center, or a marginalized group at the center, and maybe the organization is predominantly white, they think, oh, we need a consultant, because they're thinking of people of color as diversity. Do you see what I mean? The diversity is the piece that's
Kira Troilo (11:33.904)
stands out and that's when they think we need a person there as an expert. And yes, maybe that's true, probably is true. And
even if you're doing a production of, I'm just saying things off the top of my head now, but Guys and Dolls or The Prom or any fun, like any show, right? There are specific things inherent to that story that need to be analyzed. And then what kind of cast do you have? Who are you gathering together? How can we make sure that we take into account the context of the people in the room, the story we're telling,
of the time. We have to take that all into account in order to make sure everyone understands exactly what they're doing there. Everyone feels that they have the tools that they need. No one feels like they're stepping on toes or like, I'm just a diversity hire or any of that. We all just get crystal clear on what are we all doing there? What's the story we're telling and why is it important?
That's inclusion work and that work, that work of culture, of wellbeing, of care, of hey, there's a problem and there's someone here who can mediate that conflict, or hey, there's this really hard conversation we should have but we don't have anyone who's in charge of that. Holding people accountable to what they said they would do in an environment, that needs to be in every room. So I am going with the term inclusion consultant.
on shows from now on. I really think the work needs to be done so I am a fan of calling it whatever you want to call it as long as you're doing the work but for me the separation that makes sense to me is to have that EDI work at the organizational level that real work of what how are we creating systems within the organization to support the diversity that we want to see right so that real systems work at the organizational level
Kira Troilo (13:40.068)
shows, I see it as an inclusion consultant. A human being who should be in every room to make sure that there is care of humans being prioritized, as well as the art that we're creating that we love. So that's why I've gone with the inclusion consultant over EDI consultant. Oh, hold on there.
Kira Troilo (14:13.258)
So I really think that this work is the bare minimum. You know, I think.
I feel so many people who roll their eyes at the word care and it makes me really sad because even in corporate environments there's HR, right? In any office job if you have a problem there's someone to go to who hopefully is trained to handle a problem. In theater we just kind of like go with it. You know we make like stage managers and directors can end up being therapists and you know management of theaters.
mediating conflict and not having any knowledge or training that can help them do that. So it's just a huge oversight in my mind. We need inclusion to be centered in all of these spaces even though it's freelance people going in and out. So that's why I'm leaning toward the inclusion consultant.
Another question, what can we expect from inclusive stages and who is it for? So I just want to explain in short what it is.
There are three prongs to this inclusive stages movement. The first, you already know about because you're here and thank you so much for being here. This is the free one, this is the one for everyone. It's the podcast where we're gonna engage in these in-depth vulnerable conversations with directors, designers, artists, actors, scholars, students, lovers of theater, everyone. And we're gonna talk about our industry. We're gonna talk about what's going on right now.
Kira Troilo (15:50.584)
to some folks who I worked on shows with and you know mediated or facilitated conversation with and you'll get to hear how I do the work in real time. I'm really hoping that this podcast can serve as...
way into this work, a bright light I hope to shine light on how do we do this work? I know so many theaters who are desperate to do this work, but they just don't know where to start or how to go beyond the statement or how to go beyond casting, you know a diverse, racially diverse cast. So I'm hoping that this podcast can start to help shining light on the small and big steps we can all be doing from community theater
to regional theater to Broadway. And we'll hear from folks on this podcast from all over the map. Even educational theater. I think there's so much that's different about the different levels of theater, but there's so much that's the same as I think you'll hear. And I hope that's encouraging because we all have a lot of work to do, but we all have a lot to learn from each other. So I hope that this podcast is a place where we can, all of us, me included, learn more, grow more, and just add to our toolbox.
of what we can use in performance spaces and rehearsal spaces to make sure we're intentionally creating a culture that people want to be a part of and can thrive in. The second prong of this program is I'm so excited. It's a 12-week cohort certification program. I'm finally going to teach people how to do the work I do, and this takes a huge amount of trust on my part just to trust that it's ready to go. I've been working on this curriculum
which is a six point stages curriculum. Stages is actually an acronym. I'll talk about that more I'm sure in the future. But it is a course where, you know, I'm hopefully gonna gather 20 to 25 people with each cohort. This will be the first one starting in May. But the goal is to gain the crucial skills, these skills I'm talking about, like conflict mediation and feedback resilience and how can we work together in community.
Kira Troilo (18:05.664)
across difference, all those kinds of skills that no one in rooms has unless they have a degree from something else, you know, that wasn't intended for theater. So I'll welcome folks to get certified in the inclusive stages framework and that will be my goal there. With the cohort program is that we have inclusion consultants who have been thoroughly trained. It's not just like a weekend online certification where you check boxes and go. This is a real
investment, a 12 week. I'm gonna teach you everything I know in order to go in and make a big difference in all of these rooms. Again like in theater but also there's TV, film, commercial work. There's no one who has these skills so I would like to just have this program grow. My goal is to run the cohort at least twice a year. This will be the first one coming up in May so if you want to learn more you can head on over to InclusiveStages.com
The third prong of inclusive stages is not ready yet, but it's coming. It is going to be a subscription-based membership service that's geared toward leaders in theater and entertainment. This is a service that's going to provide invaluable resources, tools, and community for creative leaders who are looking to implement these care-forward creative spaces that support everyone involved. This is a huge undertaking. I'm so excited about it, but it's going to be a bit, so stay patient with me and, you know, stay.
You can sign up for our newsletter at InclusiveStages.com to just make sure you stay up to date with our updates. But my hope is that anyone, even theaters who can't afford a consultant, or can't afford to invest in equity, diversity, and inclusion work in a very meaningful way right now, will at least have some tools and guides and videos and workshops and a community and office hours to talk to, to bring your hard questions to.
consultant. So that's coming and I'm really excited for that. That's the third prong and you know with the podcast, with the certification program, and with this membership portal, I am really hoping to just spread the message of, hey we need to put care first in these creative spaces and there's so many reasons why that I will talk about and that you'll hear about but to me this is a movement.
Kira Troilo (20:35.224)
overdue and I hope you're with me. If you are with me there's a ton of ways you can get involved. You're here so thank you again for being here. You can support the podcast by heading over to Patreon. You can go and check out the links in the show notes if you're really feeling like these conversations are important and you want them to continue. Please you know consider maybe just five dollars a
Kira Troilo (21:05.304)
like a revenue generating activity for me. I would love to just support the making of it because a lot goes into making it of course. So you can do that. You can also go to InclusiveSages.com and you can support or sponsor a new consultant. So if you want to help someone to start a career in this, you know there's a lot of folks out there, I know students who are really interested in this work and really want to make a difference. So you can make a difference.
by supporting them in investing in this 12-week cohort program. So you can learn more about the different sponsorship levels over there, but you can make a really big difference just by helping folks get through this program. You could, you know, single-handedly be putting more inclusion consultants in rooms and then making that direct impact on lives right away. So most importantly, you know, on the inclusion of the bet.
So most importantly on the Inclusive Stages website, you can also just subscribe and stay up to date. There's gonna be a lot coming out, a lot of information and new resources. And of course, I want you to continue to join our conversations here by subscribing to Inclusive Stages, the podcast and downloading and sharing. And it just also means the world to me if you love the idea of this, if you're excited for more. And I hope you are because I really am.
then you can rate and review the podcast that helps get this in front of more theater people and more entertainment industry people like you. If you love what I'm doing, please I'd love for you to consider a five star rating. And again, any words that you'd like to share, I would be so grateful to have you share those. So that's what I've got. Are you ready to join me in one way or another? I hope so. I hope you're fired up.
going to make a change in the industry one stage at a time. And like I said, you can head on over to InclusiveStages.com to learn more. You can follow us on Instagram at InclusiveStages. We're on Facebook.
Kira Troilo (23:16.658)
I think that's all the things. So thank you so much for joining me for this first solo ride. We made it, I did it. I hope you'll come back for more. You will not want to miss next week's episode. I talked to the incomparable Corbin Bleu. You are not gonna wanna miss that episode. So click subscribe, make sure you're following the podcast so you don't miss an episode. And I will see you next time.
wonderful day and stay safe out there.
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