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Welcome to the finale of Season 2 of the Inclusive Stages podcast! What a journey it has been this year. Having just started the podcast this year and already having 2 seasons under my belt feels surreal.
Today, I’m going to talk about a lot of things. Before we get into it, I just want to share how grateful I am—for the people who’ve trusted me, who’ve listened to me and the guests that I've brought on, and who’ve been open to these newer conversations about the nuances of inclusion work in the arts.
Things don't always work out the way that we want them to, and I know that as well as everyone does. I was “supposed to” have done so many things that simply didn’t end up happening in 2024. But! I’ve also done so much that I did and didn’t plan for.
In this episode, I’m leaning into something uncomfortable that I have people do when I coach them, which is to just show up. So if you find yourself feeling the exhaustion of all that has been 2024, I really encourage you to listen to this episode and to take time to reflect on your own year!
In this episode, we cover:
Reflections about 2024 personally and professionally
What it’s been like birthing 2 babies in one year
Books & resources that have been supportive in this season of life
The challenges of being an EDI consultant in the arts
A celebration of huge milestones from 2024
What’s coming for Inclusive Stages in 2025
Thank you for joining me for this conversation and all the great conversations from Seasons 1 and 2. We’ll be back with you for Season 3 of the Inclusive Stages Podcast in Summer 2025! Make sure you’re subscribed to the email list and following the podcast to be among the first to know what’s happening with the show!
We’ll be checking all the communication places, so be sure to send a message on social media or through the website. We’d love to hear from you!
Links & Mentioned Resource
Related Episodes
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Thanks for joining me on this episode of Inclusive Stages! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help me reach even more theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone.
Thanks to our music composer, Zachary McConnell, and our producer, Leah Bryant.
More about the Inclusive Stages Podcast
Welcome to 'Inclusive Stages' -- the go-to weekly podcast for theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone. We'll chat with actors, directors, designers, scholars, and more about the current landscape of the theater scene and get their thoughts on how we can do better.
Host Kira Troilo will also give you a sneak peek into live EDI coaching sessions and offer actionable tips for creating more equitable, inclusive, and empathetic theater spaces that support and value the diversity of artists and audiences. Join the conversation, and let's collectively shape the future of human-first theater, one stage at a time.
This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you.
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Inclusive Stages podcast follows:
Are you a theater maker, theater artist, or theater lover who wants to make the theater industry better for all of us? You're in the right place. Hey there, I'm Kira Troilo, a theater artist, creative professional, and mom who quit her job and devoted her career to equity, diversity, and inclusion for the arts. Through decades of work in theater spaces, I couldn't help but recognize a gaping hole in our industry, the shocking lack of care and support available for creatives.
Since 2020, I've become obsessed with creating actual human resources for the humans who create theater in community. Enter the Inclusive Stages Podcast, a shame-free zone where we put my framework for inclusive theater spaces to practice. Here, we'll build bridges through curiosity and conversation, and we'll never shy away from real talk.
Join me as I break down relevant, hot-button topics of our day and chat with fascinating industry professionals about their experiences in the theater world. Plus, I'll even show you how I help actors navigate identity differences to tell brave and compelling stories, all while maintaining psychological safety. Ready to start building care-forward creative spaces where humans and art can both thrive? It all happens one stage at a time.
Places, everyone. This is the Inclusive Stages Podcast. Hello, theater friends, and welcome to the season finale of season two of the Inclusive Stages Podcast.
What a journey it has been this year. Having the podcast started this year and two seasons under my belt, it just feels surreal, honestly. Today, we're going to talk about a lot of things, but I'm just feeling so grateful for people who have trusted me and have listened to me and the guests that I've brought on and are open to these, you know, newer conversations about nuanced inclusion work in the arts.
I'm feeling very grateful. And also, I'm feeling the urge to show up at this time, even though I, in full transparency, don't want to. Let me explain what I mean by that.
We are here in December of 2024, and like many people, I'm sure, I had all of these clear plans. You know, I had worked through what I was going to do throughout the year, what steps I was going to take, not just in the podcast and who was going to be on, but in business. And, you know, what I was going to do in the Inclusive Stages business, in the art and soul consulting business, but things don't always work out the way that we want them to.
And I know that as well as everyone does. And as we're here at the end of the year, I was supposed to have recorded a couple of different episodes toward the end of this season. And for many reasons, which I'll share a bit more about in this episode, I didn't get to do that.
So I had to make the decision. Do I just say, you know what, it's been too much. I'm just going to end the podcast two weeks early.
Instead, I'm really trying to lean into something uncomfortable that I have people do when I coach them all the time, which is to just show up. So if you haven't listened to last week's episode, that truly was on the fly. My son really wanted to be on the podcast and I said, okay, you know, like we're not fully prepared.
The heat went off and, you know, messed with the audio a bit, but it was just so wonderful to have that experience talking with my son about emotional regulation. Truly one of my favorite moments of making this podcast. Now, this episode right now, again, is supposed to be more of a where are we now with the state of inclusion.
So I thought, you know what, I'm going to show up, you know, as uncomfortable as it is to just show up without a huge detailed plan and kind of talk about the state of Kira, the state of how I am. For anyone who knows me, it's been quite a year. And also not just personally, but I feel compelled to talk as someone who's building a business in the arts.
Someone who is, I keep calling myself an accidental entrepreneur. Anytime I hear folks, you know, not necessarily in the arts, but on podcasts, who've started a business, who are doing that hard work of building something from scratch, it always makes me feel less alone to hear that it's not perfect, that they struggle, that it's hard, that it's lonely. And I find people often ask me about my journey.
And I really always feel a little bit uncomfortable when people think that I have the perfect setup or the perfect life. You know, like I'm very blessed. I have beautiful children.
You know, I have a wonderful family, husband, supportive people around me. And I've built these two businesses that I'll talk a bit about. But it is hard, friends.
It is so hard. So if you're out there thinking like, oh, how does she do it? The answer is barely. And I hope that makes you feel less alone because you are not alone.
This is really hard. So anyway, today I thought I'd come on Unscripted and just talk about some takeaways from my 2024, and then some of the things I'm looking forward to in 2025. We will take a hiatus for the podcast until, don't worry, we're coming back.
The plan is to return with season three in the summer. A lot of work is going to go on behind the scenes before that. So be sure to subscribe to the Inclusive Stages newsletter.
Be sure to follow us on socials. There's going to be a lot of stuff happening. It's very exciting.
For now, though, let's talk about this year because it's been a year of a lot of lessons, a lot of realization and personal growth for me. And I'd like to just share some real talk today. And I hope that lands well with many of you out there.
So firstly, I just want to talk about the personal challenges of 2024. I had two babies. And let me explain what I mean by that.
So in December, I went to this amazing retreat for Black female CEOs and entrepreneurs. Shout out Gold Digger, Sistaviz. And I had the idea fully formed for Inclusive Stages.
I knew exactly what it was. I knew that it was a podcast. I knew that there was a framework for the work.
I knew I wanted to teach people that framework and sparkle it. And I knew what to do. And I just went.
And it was so exciting. And then simultaneously, I found out I was pregnant in January. And my husband, Jared, and I had been looking to grow our family.
And, you know, without getting too into the weeds there, it just happened a lot quicker than we thought, which was a blessing. And it meant that I spent 2024, I feel like, pregnant, both in the sense of, you know, physically, and then birthing this new business into the world. After I had just birthed Art & Soul Consulting, which is my first baby, you know, apart from Levi, who you met in the earlier episode, if you listened to that.
But it was a hard year. I've heard other people on other podcasts talk about the messy middle. And I think for the entire year, I felt like I was in this messy middle and couldn't really get enough distance to see just how hard it was.
But, you know, I haven't done this podcast without being pregnant, for example, like now I'm talking to you again with my little two-month-old on my chest. You know, I haven't had the space as a human person on my own to do this work. And that's been really tricky to learn how to balance things, you know, as a mom of two while trying to put this new thing into the world.
You know, for any of my fellow Lord of the Rings nerds, fans out there, I always feel like Bilbo Baggins feels at the end of The Return of the King, he says something like, there were moments where I felt like butter spread over too much bread. And that's pretty much how I feel on a daily basis. Like my brain, like my body, my energy, everything like doesn't have the capacity for everything I want it to have and everything I want to do.
You know, some sacrifices this year, it's looked like, you know, not having enough time or space for the friendships that matter most to me because I just don't have the capacity beyond business and entrepreneurship and kids and family. And that takes quite an emotional toll, you know. And as someone who, you know, has devoted a career to helping people feel well and be well and invest in the relationships that nurture them, sometimes it's hard to not be able to follow my own advice.
And I have to look in the mirror a lot and say, are the things that you're saying to other people getting into the armor of you, Kira? So, you know, I've started looking at life and business as a whole. I'll recommend one book here that I love called She Builds by Jada Sellner. And I read this book this year, and it's really about building a life and a work life that works for you, both as a businesswoman or a person.
And, you know, personally, does it work for your family? Does it work for your energy, your mental health? If it doesn't work overall and it's not sustainable, then it's not going to work. So no huge takeaways yet, but I feel like I need to share that that balance is not easy. But it's something that I strive for, and I'll continue to strive for in 2025.
So let's talk about some other hard truths. You know, many of you on this journey with me are doing a ton of inner work and, you know, really trying to grow your skills for inclusion. A hard truth is that not everyone understands what inclusion work really entails.
That's a struggle for me, of course, in my business, as I try to explain to people why this work is needed everywhere. I've said this before, not just on shows that are emotionally or shows for predominantly white institutions, but really for everyone. You know, a lot of folks still think that the work stops at diversity, as if like bringing people of color to the table is enough.
But as I know you, as my listeners know, true inclusion is so much more and everyone needs it. All Black spaces need it. All LGBTQ spaces need it.
All disabled spaces need it. You know, inclusion work isn't just about the makeup of the room, but about how a room operates. So, you know, creating environments where people feel safe, supported, connected, acknowledged, respected, and empowered, that's inclusion.
And what rooms don't need that? So I'm sure you can hear me. I get so worked up because I don't understand how that can be controversial or disputed. But the truth is it can.
A lot of people don't understand what it is. So, you know, that's a hard truth, is trying to explain why you belong. But it is, you know, the work is about creating systems of care that help every person thrive, no matter who's in the room.
Another hard lesson I learned this year, it pays when you don't follow your gut, when you don't listen to what your gut is telling you. And I have struggled a lot with this throughout my entire life. But I feel like 2024 was really a tipping point for me.
I tend to like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I like to give chances. You know, even if something tells me that something is wrong or off or doesn't feel genuine, I tend to keep trying, keep trying to make it work.
Just today, there was a situation where this happened. And I am learning the hard way in 2024 that when there's a lot more at stake, sometimes you just have to go with your gut, even if it doesn't feel great or kind. You know, I did an episode a little bit back about self-advocacy, which I hope you can go back and listen to.
But I think it goes back to that. I think it goes back to the sooner you feel something is off, then you need to either speak up, address it head on, or get out, depending on what the situation is, right? So in business, there's a lot of situations where, you know, if something feels off, I've heard other entrepreneurs that I've listened to and followed say, fire fast. And I'm not necessarily talking about firing, but it's to the point of once you know something is wrong, then moving on as quickly as possible is best for everyone.
Or, you know, again, you're doing this work, you're supporting people in a vulnerable way. If you feel like something is off where you're doing that, you're probably right. And I have learned these hard truths over and over again.
And I think a takeaway I have going into 2025 is just, I'm going to try to pledge to you all now here in public on a forever recording, that I'm going to try to trust myself more. I'm going to listen to myself more. And yeah, I have a lot riding on me.
And I don't do anyone any favors when I don't trust my gut and act from that place. I also want to talk about the weight of doing this work. And anyone who supports people for a living knows the weight that I'm talking about.
It's why in the future I have on my vision board, like, I want to do a retreat where people who support other people in the arts, inclusion consultants and leaders and intimacy directors, we all go out on a retreat and just like, go sit on a beach somewhere and relax and get massages and do yoga. Who's with me, right? We need that to recharge. But the emotional labor of mastering inclusion skills, unfortunately means that you're going to have to do the work double time.
What do I mean by that? It often feels like you're not just doing your own work, but then you have to do the work for the other people who you're communicating with who haven't done the work. So it's exhausting. And you think like, oh, you do this inner work and you learn these skills and things get easier.
But that's just not the case. And I just want to normalize that for anyone feeling like, oh, I'm doing this inner work. And now, you know, it's actually harder for me in these environments because I can't just ignore things that used to just fly by.
Now I'm seeing patterns. Now I'm having to really like dig into why I am the way I am or why this person is the way they are. You know, it just opens up so much more work that has to be done.
And it is magical to have that level of clarity. And speaking personally, like from the eye here, that I wouldn't trade anything I've learned for the world. I've grown in so many ways, just from being open to listening and hearing and learning.
But it can be hard. And I just want to say, if you're in that boat and you're tired and you're exhausted because we're carrying not only the load that we have, but for people around us as well, it is tiring and heavy. And I'm learning just how long I have to carry things until I hit burnout or until I literally can't anymore.
So that's something that I had some hard moments in 2024, where, you know, like five months pregnant and feeling crappy and trying to mom and making sure that the bills are paid and, you know, work's getting done where, you know, you just kind of hit the brakes and say, well, I need rest, but I don't have a break planned for another, what, two months. So anyway, it's something on my mind is building in more intentional breaks and just kind of having some time for self-reflection and realizing the weight is heavy. So another hard truth, something that isn't surprising, I'm sure, to anyone, and you can listen to many episodes on this podcast about it, building a life in the arts is hard, right? You know, it's not just like the craziness of this field of work, right? And all the nuance, but, you know, childcare, late nights, what gets your energy? There's a lot of sacrifices you have to make when you and a partner are trying to build a life, a career in the arts, and it just feels so right.
And it's so hard. You know, there are moments where we have, you know, especially our son Levi, who's six, you know, at a rehearsal or at a show, or we're talking to him about his, as you've heard, like emotional regulation and how we can be kind to others and how we can, you know, heal things through stories that I just feel so proud that we have a family who is so deeply embedded into the arts. And I'm excited for, you know, my little, little one here who has already joined me in a couple of arts rooms to join that tradition of our family.
However, it's hard to sustain a life in the arts, and I want to be open about that. And that leads me to talking about the thing that I accidentally got into here in, you know, in 2022, but really in 2024 was the duality of entrepreneurship. Now, I never had entrepreneurship on my bingo card.
Actually, this year, I went back to my alma mater, Emerson College in Boston, and I talked about being an entrepreneur. And I had to pitch myself because I'm like, I never thought when I was sitting in class here as a writing major that I'd be here talking about building two businesses. Like, how did I do that? Who am I? I still ask myself that every day.
But now that I'm here, now that I am an entrepreneur, this is the path I've chosen. I just sometimes have to sit back and create space for both how hard it is, but also how amazing it is to have the agency over my own life to create something, to build something that I hope will sustain many people and help many people and hopefully employ many people. This path stretches me in ways I never thought I'd be stretched or wanted to be stretched.
I'm actually, I had a really hard thing happen today, just talking about hard lessons about what happens when you're in charge and you try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I always try to lead with kindness and compassion. And, you know, that's kind of my whole thing here.
But the truth is there's being equity, diversity and inclusion consultant and showing up care forward. But there's also the reality of being a business owner. That's something I never learned anything about.
And I have a really great episode we'll link in the show notes that I talked to Aubrey Bergauer about this, just us as artists and the skills that we're missing when it comes to running a business. You know, I felt really pretty confident this year about the skills I was bringing forth to my cohort and rooms I've worked in and consulted in. The thing I've been working on in 2024 is business ownership and like bookkeeping and the world of, you know, taxes and like that stuff that like is not fun.
It's not the reason why you start a business, but it is equal parts challenging and rewarding. Very exciting to see ideas and things take flight and to look back and say, Hey, look, I look at all these things that I've been doing. You know, I traveled to Canada twice this year for my work.
I've received an award for my work. I have had, you know, so many new clients. I trained a group of 17 people.
I've had two seasons of this podcast. And that's not to talk about the personal achievements this year. So it's nice to sit here in December and look back, you know, feeling very honestly, as I've said, like very tired and fatigued and just like, is it time for a break yet? Which, yes, it almost is.
As I sit here almost for a holiday break, and I really am committed to taking that holiday break. But it is important. And I hope this is an important reminder for you too.
You know, I did this exercise last year at the retreat I shared that I want to do again, which is just to like draw a little map of where did you start in January? And where are you now? And even if you're in a position where it looks worse, there are moments along the way that you probably forgot to celebrate. I know that's true for me. And I'm looking forward to just sitting down and kind of mapping out what this year brought both the highs and the lows.
So those are some hard truths I've learned. It's always hard in this work, because I want to be as specific as I can without being specific, because I do a lot of the work I do is confidential. So I hope that helps someone.
That's my goal. If it helps one person out there feel seen and the challenges, you know, of being an artist, of being an entrepreneur, of being a mom, all the things, and just trying to show up as a person in the world fully. But I am really so excitedly and wholeheartedly looking forward to 2025.
We have got some new initiatives for inclusive stages. We've got more cohorts coming up. The next cohort actually starts in February of 2025.
Registration is currently open. So if you're interested in learning these important inclusion skills and making a difference in the arts industry at large, whether you're a leader, whether you're a freelance artist, you want to get into this work, please just head over to inclusivestages.com. You can check out the Get Certified tab and learn more about the cohort. Really exciting.
We did a really amazing cohort in 2024, and we're only building on that now. We have so much more to offer from inclusion, toolbox, learnings in art spaces, to trauma-informed practices, to organizational support for arts companies. So there's just so much there.
Art and Soul Consulting is expanding as well. I'm just so excited that I have a full-time team member now. Shout out to Ari Welt.
Love her. She held it down for me while I was trying to take a little bit of maternity leave, which again was something else that didn't go as planned in 2024. But we have so much new stuff coming in the new year as well.
So very excited about also a membership program that is up and coming. So stay tuned for that. Again, just subscribe, and we'll keep you up to date with the latest there.
Lots of exciting stuff coming. It feels like 2025 is just full of potential, and I am looking forward to building in some more space for rest, for connection, for joy, for friends, for time off. It's so important.
I will keep telling other people in the hopes that it will start to click for me too, that I need more of it. But yeah, I have birthed this baby into the world. I've birthed these businesses into the world, and I'm just so excited to continue working and to keep growing and learning alongside all of you listening here.
So to wrap up here, inclusion work is hard, and doing the work gets harder the more you commit to it. But a life in the arts and a life doing this work is a labor of love. It can be lonely, but it's rewarding, and holistic alignment is key.
I hope that that was helpful for you all. I continue to get practice just showing up even when I feel like I don't have much to say or my thoughts aren't as coherent as I want them to be. You know, sleeping very little with a newborn, it can feel just like a scary place in my brain.
I'm sure other new parents can sympathize with me, but I hope it helps someone out there for me to just show up and to just talk and to share where I am. Thank you again so much for joining me. If you're newer to the show, welcome.
And there's a whole lot of episodes waiting for you in the backlog, so go back, listen to all of those in the meantime, and I am so looking forward to seeing you again for season three with so many exciting guests that I already have planned. So stay tuned, take care of yourselves, happy holidays, happy new year, and be well. Thank you so much for listening to the Inclusive Stages podcast.
If you love the show, please be sure to like and subscribe to our channel. We have so many exciting guests and important topics coming up. You won't want to miss a single episode.
This podcast is completely listener supported. If you would like to become a patron of the show, please check out the link in the show notes to join us over at Patreon. Patrons have access to exclusive bonus content and also the opportunity to ask questions that could be answered live on future shows.
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That really helps those silly algorithms get our show in front of more theater lovers like you. As always, thank you to our producer, Leah Bryant, and our music composer, Zachary McConnell. See you next time.
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