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Theater touches on many parts of life—parenting and politics are just two of them. From representation (both on and off stage) to taxation for actors to the impact of theater on modern politics, there’s an entire part of theater you may not know about—yet! Change requires action. And that’s a huge part of why I started this podcast and my business to begin with! This is also a big theme for this interview with Jared Dixon, who you may know as the current Aaron Burr in Broadway’s Hamilton.
Jared joins me to discuss being a Broadway performer and sustaining a family, a lot of really interesting nuggets he's learned from mentors like Lin-Manuel Miranda and Leslie Odom Jr., and what he hopes to see for the future of not just our industry, but our country. He even shares moving Stage Door Stories with us. I know you’re going to love this conversation that touches on deeply personal topics, as well as ones that have a more broad impact. Enjoy this amazing conversation!
In this episode, we cover:
How Jared’s family influenced his decision to be an actor
What Jared’s breakout role was
What Jared’s career journey has looked like
What Lion King taught Jared about leadership
The differences between Lion King and Hamilton
What life has been like before and after the pandemic for Jared
How intuition, manifestation, and trust have really played a role in Jared’s acting career
How Jared impacted his castmates with his choice to not let theater run his life
What the theater industry could do to be more supportive of parent actors
The impact Hamilton has had on modern politics
Some of the deeper lessons within Hamilton, as Jared sees it
Impactful Stage Door Stories from Jared’s career
What kind of advice Jared has been given from other actors
What Jared hopes to see in the future with the theater
How we can make change and opportunities happen
There are topics that feel deeply personal and emotionally challenging. Politics tends to be one of those. However, if we never open our mouths to begin a dialogue, we can’t hope to inspire change or bring about the future we dream of! I hope you enjoy this episode with Jared. And if you’d like, I would love to hear from you—say hi on Instagram!
More About Jared Dixon
Jared Dixon is a multi-hyphenate storyteller and advocates for authenticity and honesty in art, culture, and society. A loving husband and father, currently portraying Aaron Burr in Hamilton on Broadway. His love of performance comes from his desire to move the world closer to a better version of itself through his strengths and passions.
Links & Mentioned Resources
Connect with Jared:
Connect with Kira:
Thanks for joining me on this episode of Inclusive Stages! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help me reach even more theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone.
Thanks to our music composer, Zachary McConnell, and our producer, Leah Bryant.
More about the Inclusive Stages Podcast
Welcome to 'Inclusive Stages' -- the go-to weekly podcast for theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone. We'll chat with actors, directors, designers, scholars, and more about the current landscape of the theater scene and get their thoughts on how we can do better.
Host Kira Troilo will also give you a sneak peek into live EDI coaching sessions and offer actionable tips for creating more equitable, inclusive, and empathetic theater spaces that support and value the diversity of artists and audiences. Join the conversation, and let's collectively shape the future of human-first theater, one stage at a time.
This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you.
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Inclusive Stages podcast follows:
Kira Troilo (00:02.944)
Hey Jared, how you doing? Good, on vacation?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (00:03.942)
Hey there. I'm good, I'm good.
Yeah, only I got a day left. It's great.
Kira Troilo (00:13.927)
Only a day left, it's great. Well, thank you for taking the time to talk to me on your vacation. I know you're a busy, busy guy, especially when you're not on vacation. Just a bit busy in a small show, right?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (00:26.324)
I'm
Yeah, I'm little something, a little play.
Kira Troilo (00:31.943)
We'll play, yeah. Great, well I would love to start by just asking, I might know a bit about this answer, but I don't know the full answer. What would you consider to be your theater, let me start that again. What would you consider to be your theater origin story?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (00:49.466)
I mean, maybe like Spider -Man a little bit, I don't know. Like the kid who inherited superpowers, didn't trust that they could be of any use, and then wound up on the Avengers somehow. Yeah. So I grew up, my dad was a...
Kira Troilo (00:56.899)
Spider -Man!
Kira Troilo (01:14.628)
Yes.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:21.911)
Broadway actor, he was in Ragtime, the original musical. And so I was around a bunch of actors as a kid. And I followed his footsteps, I went to LaGuardia Performing Arts, and even still, didn't truly know that acting was a career. Even at 18, it just was like, yeah, that was that thing that my dad.
Kira Troilo (01:23.056)
Hmm.
Kira Troilo (01:40.417)
Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:48.33)
You know, even though I went to school for it, I just didn't see it as a viable career path just from years of, you know, self judgment and, you know, societal judgment of like what an acting career could look like. And I'm black, so, you know, being a black actor growing up in the 90s, don't, you know, it's very rare that I don't know any Will Smiths. So.
Kira Troilo (01:49.295)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (02:05.242)
Thank
Kira Troilo (02:14.563)
Right?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (02:16.358)
I guess I am the Will Smith of my neighborhood. But I went to LaGuardia, studied voice, and I did the school musical, which was Ragtime, my senior year. I got cast as Cole House. And then I just kind of like, I felt like, it was beginner's luck because I knew the show, and I knew how to sing. So was just like, it's gonna work out, it's fine.
Kira Troilo (02:29.927)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (02:42.714)
and your dad to drag type.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (02:43.825)
Right, I was like, I know everything about this. I can do co -house. But then somewhere in there, the director asked me, he's like, you know, have you auditioned for any conservatories or anything? Like, are you considering acting in college? And I was like, I've never done this. I don't know what I'm doing. So probably not. And he's like, I think you should audition. I was like, yeah, I don't think so. So I went to college for...
Kira Troilo (02:46.853)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (03:05.538)
Mmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (03:11.957)
Five different majors. I changed majors like five or six times. I landed on liberal studies for English and Italian after about halfway through my sophomore year I decided to pursue acting. I had some very integral conversations with my parents and my grandparents and a bunch of people around me that I trusted. And I got very transparent about my fears and doubts.
Kira Troilo (03:36.816)
Hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (03:38.857)
And everyone encouraged me to follow it. And I booked my first job out of college that I auditioned for, which happened to be ragtime. And so that's how I ended up in Boston. I did like seven shows, seven or eight shows in Boston over the course of three years. And then I just kind of, that was my college, regional theater in Boston. And that's how we met. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (03:48.525)
Wow. So that's the show.
Kira Troilo (04:04.753)
Hmm, that is, I was gonna say that, yeah, and when I met you and I remember you saying, you know, yeah, I don't know, I just kinda do this. Like, okay, Jared.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (04:17.972)
Yeah, meanwhile I was like one of the principals in the show and I just didn't realize what that meant until, you know, being around actors of different, you know.
Kira Troilo (04:32.593)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (04:32.717)
different stations in their career. And so I would always ask people like, am I good at this?
Kira Troilo (04:37.478)
No, I remember my husband and I saying like, he's going places, like he's gonna be big and yeah, we were right. I don't mind saying that, but yeah. That's amazing. And it just goes to show. Yeah, you don't have to know exactly what you're doing right away to make it, you know, to end up far. Yeah, exactly. Can you talk a little bit just about your road to Hamilton? know...
Jared Dixon (he/him) (04:46.379)
Hahaha
Jared Dixon (he/him) (04:55.318)
Yeah, you have to know who you are more than anything.
Kira Troilo (05:04.999)
We got to go see you when you were in the Color Purple tour. I know you did Lion King. So, yeah, from Boston to Hamilton. What was that road like?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (05:15.25)
Yeah, when I was in Lion King, there's the business side of things. And I felt like I had done everything that I needed to do to prove that I was capable of doing the show on Broadway. And I just was at a point where I wanted to just test the waters. And so I left Lion King without a job, no, like, you
I didn't know what was gonna happen. had gotten a call for Hamilton the week that I joined Lion King. I just finished rehearsal. Yeah. I was simple, yeah.
Kira Troilo (05:55.602)
I didn't know that. and for people who don't know what role did you play in Lion King. Yeah. so good.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (06:00.933)
And Symbol was like, it wasn't like a dream role, but it was like, this is a role that I should do. And it evaded me for seven years. So by the time I got it, I was just kind of like, I need to do this. Like I need to fulfill this, you know, I kind of have to culminate, like I have to graduate from auditioning for Lion King. It was the first big audition that I went to and I had to prove to myself that, you know, I could do it. And it was a great place to learn.
Kira Troilo (06:22.61)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (06:28.156)
Mm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (06:30.746)
this leading man thing, whatever. So I had done a year and a half on the road with Lion King and I was like, I'm ready to move on. So I left and like a week.
Kira Troilo (06:33.5)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (06:46.778)
Literally two days after I left the show, Hamilton called again and they're like, hey, are you available? We have a contract. And I was like, yes, I'm available. And I booked it, like two, three auditions. And ironically, I had to go back to Lion King on the road to cover Simba because they had a bunch of injuries, but Rola's prone to injuries.
Kira Troilo (07:11.417)
Hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (07:13.654)
And I went back and within a week's time they were like, so what's new? And I was like, I'm in Hamilton. But I kind of knew, I had been saying for about six or eight months at that time, once I leave Lion King, Hamilton will be my next job. I was like, I don't know how or when, but it's gonna happen. And I just knew as soon as I got an opportunity to do it, that it would be my next job.
Kira Troilo (07:19.825)
By the way.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (07:43.053)
And I actually turned down, I was like, I'm not going back on tour unless it's Hamilton. And then that's what happened. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (07:50.3)
Wow, you manifested it like truly, wow. And what was, I have so many questions, but what was the difference, was there a difference between Lion King and Hamilton, your experiences? Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (08:04.088)
Yeah, totally. mean, Lion King was more like, like you're very aware that you're a part of, like you're just a piece in the machine. No, mean, yeah, it's Disney theater. Like the IP is so much bigger than the...
Kira Troilo (08:13.135)
Mmm, is that Disney?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (08:20.579)
than the stage show. And when people come to see the show, they're coming from so many different perspectives. We've seen the show on, we watched the movie 50 times. This is my son's first time watching the movie. He watched it last night. Or my son's never seen the movie, I thought we should see the musical first. Or I saw the musical 100 times. I love it more than the movie. you know, that live action that Beyonce was in. So.
Kira Troilo (08:35.025)
Mmm.
Kira Troilo (08:44.305)
Yeah.
yeah. A lot of entry ways to that material.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (08:50.337)
Yeah, yeah. And I was around for the live action, so the reinvigoration of the Lion King story and all that stuff, was a part of that in some way. it was really cool to just kind of feel like a worker ant in the Lion King. And even though was playing Simba, I always treated myself, or I always treated my role in it as like was a worker ant or a worker.
Kira Troilo (09:08.24)
Mm -hmm.
Kira Troilo (09:20.484)
Mm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (09:20.807)
Not that I was like the king or anything like that. I just felt like it's always more important for leaders to make space for other people to lead themselves and to lead by example. So while I was in the show on the road, that's pretty much the role that I took up. And I learned a lot about being a leading man on and off stage. Being the energy that brought the show up every day, even though we had
Kira Troilo (09:30.939)
Mm -hmm.
Kira Troilo (09:44.999)
you
Jared Dixon (he/him) (09:50.047)
you know, our turnarounds on Lion King were crazy. Like we would close on Sunday, open on Wednesday, but then on Wednesday morning we'd have a basically a full dress rehearsal and a mic check and a sound check. So they had to go through all technical, you know, a technical rehearsal of the show. And when I started, we actually would do that on Tuesday. So we didn't have as much time and they changed the schedule because it was running the...
the crew ragged. Yeah, and then, you know, it made for a lot of human error. they amended the schedule so that we would have one less show the first week and then we would do a nine show week the next week, which was like crazy when you do two shows, I mean two weekers. It felt like okay when we had a month or a month.
Kira Troilo (10:23.619)
I would imagine everyone ragged because you have one day off.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (10:44.54)
the city, but when you had two and three weekers it was just nuts. Moving to Hamilton, because Hamilton was newer we had a more open schedule so we would sit for three to four weeks and we didn't have that extra tech, we had a tech rehearsal but it was basically just mic check and viewpoints and then we would just load the show in and just get going on Tuesday night so it was a little bit easier getting into the show and I think
Jared Dixon (he/him) (11:14.719)
But before the pandemic, the wife and the baby, like it was a lot easier doing the show because it was kind of like, I can just bring my talents to the thing. don't have to like, I don't have to put as much effort into the maintenance side of it. But after all of that stuff, it's become a little bit harder. And on Broadway, it's a little bit harder to just be, you know, I have more life duties and.
Kira Troilo (11:33.037)
Mm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (11:42.894)
The life is the stuff that gets in the way of the career and vice versa when you're at home.
Kira Troilo (11:47.758)
That's right. Yeah. Well, that's one of the many things I wanted to talk to you about because we're both parents. I love seeing, my gosh, your little one on stage with you on Instagram and just like how cool when he grows up what that's going to be for him. But yeah, I mean, I know that, you know, this industry is not very, I don't know what the word is, but, know, not very considerate of parents and, and, you know,
Jared Dixon (he/him) (11:52.953)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (11:59.393)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (12:04.844)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (12:17.24)
when you think of an actor, you know, don't think about like, raising a family and settling down. So yeah, can you just talk a little bit about what it was like, like deciding to, you know, you got married and had a kid and bought a house, right? What was that like? Cause you were in Hamilton for both sides, before and after.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (12:33.985)
Yeah.
Yeah, a big part of my like pandemic.
like finding myself, like pivot, whatever, was just like, I remember when everybody, like the pivot term became a thing, like everybody you gotta make that pivot. Like if you're a stage actor, now's your time to sharpen your TV craft and on -screen craft and blah, blah, blah. Like let's all get into politics and maybe you can run for, and you can practice law. And that was great for some people. And I was just like, none of these things were ever a dream for me, so no.
Kira Troilo (12:53.558)
I'm going to
Kira Troilo (13:12.417)
Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (13:13.61)
My dream was to buy a home and have a driveway and a yard because I'm a kid from Queens, New York. I had that as a kid, but I lived in apartments for most of my life.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (13:33.371)
just like fully grow up because I, like if you look at my time post college, I pretty much, like I said, I went back to college in some respect because I was learning and I had to kind of like let the career tell me what it wanted to be. So I was going wherever the job was and.
kind of putting the self work that I needed to do to really become the responsible human being that could carry a healthy relationship with someone. I was kind of putting that on the back burner and just like learning it by osmosis. But then during the pandemic, it was just kind of like, I don't have anything else to do. Like let's try some stuff. And I dated.
Kira Troilo (14:05.782)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (14:13.577)
Mmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (14:16.876)
And I dated and I dated and then I got to the point where I kind of like gave up on it because I realized that it was just a tough time for people and so many people had so many different things going on. I didn't want to waste anybody's time or anything. And then somewhere there in the third quarter, I met Christy and she was really speaking my language when we met. I kind of knew on the first phone call and it...
Kira Troilo (14:32.981)
Mm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (14:46.864)
I mean within six months I knew that I wanted to marry her. We were engaged by 10, married within a year and a half. you know, yeah. So it just was the process of making the decision to have a full life aside from my career.
Kira Troilo (14:53.31)
Yeah, when you know, know.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (15:05.004)
was really what I found during the pandemic. was like, the world is gonna do what it does. There's always gonna be something in the way. There's always gonna be a roadblock. You're never gonna feel ready. But if you have the tools in front of you, you may as well build the house or, you know, whatever. And when I met Christy, I had fully identified that she was someone who saw the world the way that I did and that we could have an exponential relationship. And...
Kira Troilo (15:07.306)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (15:32.139)
felt confident with her, like I never had any questions. Even like we surprised ourselves and found out that we were pregnant a week after we got married. And even after that, it was just like, all right, let's have a baby. Like, whatever, like, you know. And she would be like, are you worried about? And I'd be like, yeah, I'm worried about it, but I was worried about it yesterday. So nothing's changed. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (15:45.259)
Let's go. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (15:55.009)
Always going to be worried. It's just what, right, how many things we have to worry about and what's the most pressing.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (16:01.514)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (16:03.794)
Okay, so you, you ha - the baby came after you went back to Hamilton, right?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (16:09.224)
Yeah, I have been back in hand for I think about a year, I want to say, because we got married. So we got engaged three months after the pandemic. We got married that August and we also found out we were pregnant that August. So I'm almost a
I think it was a year, I'm not sure, I don't remember. Might have been like a year and four, a year and three months, I don't remember. Time is weird. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (16:45.867)
time. Yeah, especially COVID and post COVID. What was it? I know you were probably just like, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna handle it. I know I've done.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (16:54.364)
no, was like, I mean, knew that it was, it's a funny story. Like I knew she was pregnant before, before like she told me. Right, right. And just like getting the confirmation when she told me, it was kind of like, it happened around the same time that I was negotiating my contract.
Kira Troilo (17:03.713)
Intuition.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (17:21.185)
And I remember this, I remember saying that my goal was to stay on the road, I think as long as it took to make it possible for Chrissy to fully facilitate like renovating the house and restarting her business. And...
Kira Troilo (17:21.832)
yeah.
Kira Troilo (17:40.544)
Mm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (17:45.198)
I remember, like at that time, I was just like, if we get pregnant, I'm gonna be on the road for at least another year and a half. I'll come home to help get things off the ground and then we'll figure something out. You can come back on the road with me, maybe with the baby, can nurse on the road. And then she was pregnant. And I was like, I have to go home. It just kinda fell on me. I think I had three or four months left in my contract or something like that.
Kira Troilo (18:07.422)
Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (18:15.006)
And that's when I made the decision to move on. And it was just like another leap of faith. But I think I may have had like six months, she was pregnant for, she was well into her third trimester when I came home. But I...
just knew that I needed to be present in some capacity. So whatever I missed, like the first two trimesters, I earned back when I came home. And I remember telling my cast, like, you know, I love you guys and we've done so much. And like, you know, it was really cool for us to remount the show after the pandemic and having that experience with them. But I was like, I made a promise to myself during the pandemic, like I'm going to live a life and I'm not going to be beholden to this career.
Kira Troilo (18:33.45)
you
Kira Troilo (18:41.214)
Yep, I'm sure.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (19:00.712)
in the way that so many of us have been and I encourage everyone, talking about that leadership thing, is being like, I encourage other people to go out and do that and not be afraid of it. Because people will always ask me, weren't you afraid? And I'm like, hell yeah. But like, know, Kobe said, do it scared.
Kira Troilo (19:16.435)
Yep.
Mmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (19:19.292)
Or I think it was Will Smith that said, do it scared. But everyone said it in some capacity, like, just go do it. You're going to be scared. Fear is just an indication that you care.
That's kind of what it was. And then, lo and behold, three months after I had left my contract, Hamilton was like, so we're gonna move you to Broadway. And I was like, okay, great. Things work out. Yeah, I mean, kind of knew it was gonna happen. It was high time. But I thought, I was like, maybe it'll take about a year, a year and a half maybe. And in that time, hopefully I'm still available. I still wanna do it. And, you
Kira Troilo (19:45.23)
the universe. Yeah things work out.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (20:02.587)
set up wonderfully to kind of make things the transition.
Kira Troilo (20:06.984)
Yeah, wow. Yeah, sometimes I always just say the universe, but like the universe rewards you, right, for like staying true to yourself. And I can't also help but think how powerful that was for your castmates when you said, I'm going to live my life. This is...
Jared Dixon (he/him) (20:13.555)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (20:21.273)
they, and not to say that I'm responsible for anyone's anything, but like I have seen the proof in the pudding. Like I have castmates who I've had conversations with about healthy relationships and marriage and what it looks like to actually find, like to find a partner who speaks your language, who maybe like, maybe the people who look like where you come from don't work. Maybe they just don't work.
Kira Troilo (20:35.615)
Hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (20:47.788)
Or maybe your image of whatever you think you deserve is not actually what you need. And this is how you become the person, this is how I did it for myself. Maybe you need to ask yourself these questions. Those people are now engaged, married.
And I'm just a little piece of the puzzle somewhere in there. But I do feel encouraged when I even still have friends that I worked with who will reach out to me and they see pictures of me and my son.
Or they'll see me and Christy doing something and they're like, man, I'm just trying to be like you growing up. You know how black people do. They're like, yo, you're the dream. But I get what they're saying because I used to look at Leslie Odom and Joshua Henry and all of my idols and their families and just be like, if they're doing it, I can do it. Maybe I don't make as much money as them, but we can make it work. And why not make a...
Kira Troilo (21:25.819)
yeah.
Kira Troilo (21:38.664)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (21:42.462)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (21:45.828)
Why not make your life something worth fighting for in your career? So I have a why.
Kira Troilo (21:51.231)
That's right.
Mm -hmm. Yep. Then that's right. That has to guide you. please. Yes.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (21:57.27)
Yeah. I remember also, I think this is key. I also remember saying to Kristy, and this is something we kind of follow as a couple, like, the world is gonna give you crap. Like, no matter what, you may as well choose your problems. you know?
Kira Troilo (22:16.896)
Choose your
Jared Dixon (he/him) (22:17.653)
Yeah, choose your issues and solve them. If you don't want to live in an apartment, don't live in an apartment. Get a house. I know it's not the easiest thing in today's economy, but if there's a pathway to doing it, don't be fearful of what will happen when you get it. Just go get it, and then it'll tell you what it needs you to do in order to maintain it. Or you'll fail and start over. Life ends when it ends.
Kira Troilo (22:37.104)
Mm -hmm.
Kira Troilo (22:47.645)
Yeah, right. Well, in whatever you're presented with, it's like, okay, well, you had like you had this plan for on the road and then something changes. So you adjust based on your why and what your values are. That's so important. It's jazz, yes. That's right. little bit. Are there any other parents in Hamilton and what is it like now? Yeah, like from a workplace standpoint, like how does that feel?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (22:48.352)
I
Jared Dixon (he/him) (22:55.051)
Yeah.
It's jazz. That's why MJ's name is Miles.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (23:12.161)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (23:16.594)
Yeah, definitely. I want to shout out Shanika, Jenny Harney, Tamar Green, Chloe Campbell, Kim. They're all parents at the Richard Rodgers. I might be missing someone. Am I missing somebody? I hope I'm not. But yeah, it's like our little support group of, I see you. You got those bags under your eyes. You got that little twitch. That little twitch in your eye.
Kira Troilo (23:34.502)
If you think of it, we can add it back in.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (23:45.797)
You need some coffee, you need some candy, like, you know. But it's been good. On the road, I didn't have that. All of my castmates were younger than me, with the exception of like a handful, or two or three maybe. And coming to Broadway, that's kind of what it was like. It was like, this was adult Hamilton. where, yeah.
Kira Troilo (23:48.498)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (24:04.636)
Yeah, well you're in one place so it's more conducive to being a parent, right?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (24:08.824)
is where people clock in and they're like, hey, see y on Tuesday. And then every once in a while we get a like, let's go together to a happy hour situation. it's been...
Jared Dixon (he/him) (24:24.717)
reaffirming to be around so many different variations of what me and Christy do, different parenting styles and different career, life career balance styles and stuff like that and seeing what works for other people and being able to bring some of it into our own thing and also share with them what works for us.
and then continue to encourage my other castmates to like, yo, go get married, you know, get married, like date that guy, date that girl, you know, whatever, like, you know, like don't be afraid of it. So it's been really cool and it's been different.
Kira Troilo (24:54.13)
Yeah
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (25:05.378)
for sure, figuring out how to balance the two. But I will say that Hamilton's done a really good job of providing an opportunity for us to do it. And so I have to shout them out for being that kind of company and life easier where they can within the realm of consideration for the capital side of it. Yeah, it's a big family.
Kira Troilo (25:27.185)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (25:31.291)
I'm very lucky to be a part of this show at this time in my life.
Kira Troilo (25:36.081)
Yeah. Yeah. I can, I mean, that's so great to hear too, just to hear that there are others like you as well, like, and that they're doing what they can. If you can say, or, cause I was going to ask you about what are some things you'd like to see industry -wide to make things easier for parents, but it sounds like Hamilton's doing some of them, so. -huh. Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (25:45.592)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (25:56.478)
I mean, there should be a Broadway daycare. It'd be nice if there was a daycare center at the Equity Building or something like that. I don't know. That sounds so far -fetched, but it would be really cool.
Kira Troilo (26:05.106)
Yep.
Kira Troilo (26:11.592)
We're working, I mean I'm working on it in Boston just having, you know, childcare available for actors when they do their Sunday matinees, for example. So if like you could do a daycare drop off, audience and actors, kids, go there. Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (26:17.138)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (26:23.86)
be amazing. also think...
Jared Dixon (he/him) (26:30.854)
Because they have like, I mean everything's based on your contract negotiations. Like if you ask for more personal days.
you have to justify it by being like, need like three extra personal days for my baby's birthday and then I need this and you know. So that's one of those things that where like Hamilton goes above and beyond. I would like to see some, I would like to see Hamilton not have to go above. I'd like to see it in writing. Like when you have a parent in your show, you have to make, you know.
Kira Troilo (27:05.265)
Mm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (27:11.611)
family leave more accessible or something like that. And I do think that most shows make it, from what I know, most shows make it easier for parents if they can. But then there's always that question of like, if it comes down to like, I have to do the show or the show will get canceled, you know, it still does fall on the parent. So.
Kira Troilo (27:15.058)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (27:38.48)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (27:38.532)
It's just one of those weird things in our industry that like, you know, and of course there's other things that like we have to address. I mean, and it's not the industry's fault. It's the country, you know. It's harder because it's harder to live in America these days. Like everything costs 300 % what it used to 15 years ago or 10 years ago or five years ago. And...
Kira Troilo (27:43.524)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (28:05.807)
Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (28:09.611)
That is maybe one of the main facts that keeps everything so hard, you know.
Kira Troilo (28:15.128)
Yeah, and you said, yeah, that's just a beautiful transition because you said you're grateful to have Hamilton right now at this point in your life. But I can't help thinking about just Hamilton and the story of Hamilton and the current political climate that we're in right now. So what does it feel like to be doing a show about the birth of America or the founding fathers and what we're going through?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (28:23.725)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (28:34.807)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (28:42.866)
I can't, I pray that I get the opportunity to on election night scream women in the seat rule with the Skyless sisters. Like that is gonna be such a moment. But I do, it's funny. Recently I feel like a lot of the women in our industry are getting sick of playing accessory to men and I feel them, I do.
It just so happens that this story is about Hamilton. And so the women in the story are accessories to Hamilton's story. And the story does center a man's narrative. But I do appreciate that even though maybe they're not central, there is a reverence for their station in some way that we get to explore.
We get to explore the reverence and respectability of their station at the time. You have to be of the mind that women have come so far because these women were, mean, Angelica Schuyler was in reality not such a great person. mean, she was a slave owner and things, know.
Kira Troilo (29:40.763)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (29:58.32)
Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (30:02.673)
I won't get into the history. you know, for different reasons, she was the kind of person that she was. And maybe that was just a cause and effect situation. Like she was just a woman of her time. But she was also brilliant. And Theodosia Burr, formerly Theodosia Prevost or whatever her name was, she was brilliant as well.
Kira Troilo (30:03.641)
Yeah, for a different podcast, yeah.
Kira Troilo (30:10.831)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (30:20.272)
Mm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (30:31.655)
Theodosia, Burr's daughter was brilliant and he was kind of a, he was very pro -woman and like feminist in his politics, at least with his daughter. He wanted her to be well -educated and to be able to afford herself academic opportunities beyond what most women could at the time.
Kira Troilo (30:56.933)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (30:57.166)
So it's kind of cool to be a part of that in the story and then also in life because I do look at the women in my show and I'm like, I hope that this show creates an opportunity for them to go and tell another story that centers women.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (31:18.65)
One of my good friends, she just left Hamilton, her name's Stephanie Park. And the day that they announced Crazy Rich Asians, I was like, this is your thing. This is your story, let's get it. So if something like that happens for her, I'll be the first one in line. And then also in the political times, just being a part of...
Kira Troilo (31:31.589)
Go. Yes, go.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (31:46.199)
what could be the first electorate that chooses a woman to run the country. I mean, I've been, it's odd being in Hamilton, I've been a part of so much precedent. We actually helped to elect Kamala Harris and Joe Biden and to flip Georgia in the Senate and in the...
Kira Troilo (31:58.863)
Mm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (32:12.759)
presidential race by way of Ham for Progress, which we did letter writing with Vote Forward and created a pathway for people to get out and vote in Georgia, which, you know, Georgia was one of those states that helped to turn the tide in the last election. another small piece of the puzzle moment, but it's amazing to look at it. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (32:20.026)
Hmm.
Kira Troilo (32:30.661)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (32:38.049)
huge for a show. Yeah, that a show can have that kind of effect on, like what you said, like our problems are with our country. So you're doing that. Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (32:46.824)
Mm -hmm. We do it every night. Like, we change minds. Like, I think we don't, maybe we don't change minds, but we prime them for change. I always say, we're not seed planters. We're...
Jared Dixon (he/him) (33:03.21)
We're the soil. We lay fertile ground. We help to change and revitalize the soil so that when people get back out into the world, the seeds can be planted and we can harvest the fruit from the changed minds. Because you may come into Hamilton thinking, well, all politicians are...
Kira Troilo (33:04.893)
Mmm.
Kira Troilo (33:16.497)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (33:25.925)
are great, or you might think they're all terrible, or something in between, and then you might leave feeling like, no, they're all just human. And so when I go out to vote for a politician, I should really look at the best, who's the best human that I can vote for, and then I look at their policies, and then I look at my needs and how they fit into their policies and see if I can get the best version of what I need out of this candidate.
Kira Troilo (33:50.629)
Mm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (33:54.895)
So I think we do the work that we can and I'm sure that the show has been a part of changing the minds of the future and helping to shape thousands, millions of minds around the world about what politics can be and also what, you know, personal relationships can be and what hardship can look like and how it's different on different bodies and different people.
Kira Troilo (34:14.397)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (34:20.667)
Right. Yeah. Do you have any amazing stage door moments or, you know, any people directly that you've spoken to who you think, wow, I've made a difference? I know.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (34:32.897)
Yeah, I mean, there's so many. I've met like people with terminal cancer. I've met, I mean, like recently there was a woman who came to the show and
Her friends were all dressed and I was like, are we celebrating something? And the woman was like, I'm terminal. And all her friends were like, yeah, we just wanted to, and I see them getting emotional, but it's a fact for her. But she was so, she had so much joy in seeing the show and it was such a weird moment to watch her.
Kira Troilo (34:56.859)
Ugh.
Kira Troilo (35:00.528)
of course.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (35:16.044)
be bright and vibrant and her friends be the somber ones. And they're like, yeah, we brought her to the show because, know, and she was like, it's okay. She was like, they're emotional. My life has changed. She's like, I don't know how much time I have left, but you know, you were a part of making.
Kira Troilo (35:29.304)
Hmm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (35:36.3)
joy for me in this time and I'm just here to have a good time. So stuff like that is really cool and obviously we also have Make -A -Wish kids and stuff like that. But I've also had people come to the show and say that my portrayal of Burr helped them to realize that there's more to these people, these people that we idolized.
the founding fathers, like there are people who think that they're superheroes and they're not. They didn't have any extra anything than most of us. They were just men of their time who were put in a situation where they were given the opportunity to do something great. And they did something great. They founded America.
Kira Troilo (36:14.364)
Mm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (36:29.278)
But in doing that, they also made many, many, many, mistakes. And they also were accessory to many evils. And their bickering and bickering and name calling and all that stuff has...
Kira Troilo (36:34.875)
Mm -hmm.
Kira Troilo (36:41.782)
Yes.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (36:51.794)
we've inherited that as well. So when you watch the show, you go, man, like you celebrate in act one, I can't believe we did that. And then right in act two, we're back to cursing each other out and like Thomas Jefferson comes home and the first thing we do is argue about something as opposed to.
Kira Troilo (37:03.677)
That's
Jared Dixon (he/him) (37:09.442)
figuring out, you know, I mean, and maybe the arguing is the point. We're supposed to argue about what's right and what's wrong and figure out and choose the right path. But then it's the extra stuff that, you know, that makes you look at our system and go, OK, well, it can get better if we continue to work on our
Kira Troilo (37:18.791)
Mm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (37:36.998)
elected officials and we continue to strive to make the country something that it hasn't ever been as opposed to trying to keep it back, know, go backwards. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (37:47.547)
Right. Yeah. And I can imagine so many people, maybe people who can't have those disagreements in a kind way, maybe come to Hamilton. I, you know, this is me being optimistic and, you know, something about seeing it the way that you all do it and the time period and just making connections to today. That's got to be helpful.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (38:06.915)
Yeah, I hope so. I do, I do, I feel like I'm one of those like super self -aware actors where like I go on stage and sometimes I can even feel what the audience is feeling as I'm sharing the message with them. And I always feel like at the end of the show, when Burr shoots Hamilton.
Kira Troilo (38:22.216)
Hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (38:29.857)
It's just like immediate regret. Immediate, I just, how did I even allow myself to get there? And the message is, I had just taken my, if I had just been myself, if I had just taken my time, if I had just waited, maybe I could have seen that the world was wide enough for both of us. And, and.
Kira Troilo (38:33.576)
Hmm.
Kira Troilo (38:55.133)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (38:57.185)
go away and think about that. Take a breath. I think that's one of the coolest moments is the silence that comes after that scene or sometimes applause. But I think it's the silence or applause comes from a space of like, can't believe we went through this journey together. I have some work to do. We have work to do. And I always find that really encouraging that I get to deliver that in some way. And then Eliza just comes in like.
Kira Troilo (39:00.272)
Yeah, take a breath, right?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (39:26.443)
drives at home, you know?
Kira Troilo (39:27.645)
Yes. Oof, yeah. I went to see Hamilton. I saw the original cast by myself and yeah, just like, I felt like the air was just taken away from me and I was just sobbing. I I know many people have that experience, but yeah, I can't imagine what it must be like being there and doing it.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (39:35.393)
you
Kira Troilo (39:47.549)
Did you have any advice from any, whether it's Hamilton mentors or anyone, I don't know if you talked to people who played the role or for just caring for yourself through playing this very intense, huge role.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (39:56.981)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (40:03.893)
Yeah, I'm lucky enough to be friends with both Leslie Odom Jr. and Joshua Henry and Lynn. I mean, Lynn by way of work, we see him probably five or six times a year. But...
Kira Troilo (40:14.226)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (40:18.237)
Right?
Kira Troilo (40:23.174)
he's that involved, that's amazing.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (40:24.41)
Yeah, I mean he still comes and checks in on the show. If he's going to see another show, he'll just pop up in the company management office to hang out for five minutes. And they're like, what are you doing? He's like, I'm going to see cats. Yeah, just came to use the massage chair in the company management office. So they've all shared their little nuggets about how to go about doing this show.
Kira Troilo (40:37.246)
Thought I'd drop by Hamilton for a minute. Yeah.
Yes.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (40:54.755)
And just, you know, doing what we do, being actors and creators and also being parents. Yeah, Lynn's main advice was, hey, you can't sing on no sleep. It's like, whatever you gotta do, you know, if you need to make it so that you go to sleep, you know, and you get your full nine hours, just make sure that your wife gets an hour or two of rest.
Kira Troilo (41:02.458)
Mm -hmm. Right, because they all are.
Kira Troilo (41:08.765)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (41:24.027)
Mm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (41:24.175)
you know, in the morning or like work out a deal, figure it out. And so that was his thing. Leslie's thing was more like reassurance and reaffirming that life outside of this thing is more important than what we do. Like what we do is important, but it's important because it affects everyone else. But our lives at home are more.
should be more important to us and like we have a responsibility to our families to be the best version of ourselves when we go home. And Josh's advice, I think he was the first person that I told that I got the role. I think I literally called him like the day I found out. I called him and I was just like, yo, not that I got the role, that I was moving to Broadway.
Kira Troilo (42:10.916)
Hmm
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (42:20.358)
I was like, yo, they're moving me to Broadway. And he kind of told me, he's like, yeah, man, Broadway is a different beast. Like, I'm so proud of you. Just, you know, just continue to be mindful, continue to work on yourself, work on your craft, you know, and in those moments of silence, make sure you take space, take time, check in with yourself. Because if you allow...
Kira Troilo (42:20.511)
yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (42:42.55)
If you allow Hamilton to take everything, it will. Not Hamilton like the company, but Hamilton the show. So they've all shared a little bit. And like I said, I continue to be encouraged by seeing what they do in their careers and that they're able to balance it out in some way, form, or shape.
Kira Troilo (42:51.343)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (43:03.364)
Yeah, that's beautiful. And I love that there's some kind of support connection as the role gets passed down from actor to actor. Yes, Renee. So it's possible. We're just another model of right, can be possible. I want to talk to you all day, but also respecting your time before I ask the last question. I'm wondering if you...
Jared Dixon (he/him) (43:09.876)
Yeah, I even look at like Renee, she has babies and she's, you know, like, so, yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (43:27.402)
Mm
Kira Troilo (43:30.306)
Outside of Hamilton, just industry -wide, as you look ahead, what are your thoughts on the theater landscape at the moment, and what are some things that you'd like to see happening?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (43:41.75)
I'd like, I'd really like to see a remodeling of our, the equity government, governmental body that reflects a more, maybe, I don't know, I mean, because it is democratic, but maybe a more,
Kira Troilo (43:54.19)
Mm. Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (44:08.176)
open democracy and a more accessible democracy in terms of voting. I think I find it very interesting that more than, I don't know, I don't remember what the numbers are, but I think more than 70 % of equity members don't work on Broadway, don't live in New York. And then only,
Kira Troilo (44:17.914)
Mm -hmm
Kira Troilo (44:30.967)
yeah, I believe that.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (44:36.688)
I 17%, if I'm not mistaken, voted for the equity president and even less for chairs and for the members of the council and stuff like that, regional council members and things of that nature. So I find it very odd that we can't boost those numbers. And that's been the trend forever. So I find it very odd that we can't boost those numbers and I wonder.
Kira Troilo (45:00.579)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (45:06.544)
personally experienced how hard it is to vote. Like I live in New York and you have to make sure your address is right to get a mail -in ballot. then the mail -in ballot that they're using, the service that they're using to send the ballots is not great. And so it might get lost in the mail and all that stuff. like, it has to be an easier way. We live in the digital age where like...
Kira Troilo (45:26.563)
Mm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (45:33.984)
You know, this is not a presidential campaign. We don't need to protect people's votes. We could all do it online. You know? Yeah, yeah. And obviously there are security things that have to go into inaction. So I understand that. But it's gotta be easier for people to vote. I also think there should be a mandated, like if you're in a show anywhere during the election.
Kira Troilo (45:40.961)
Right, to get more people heard, right, and yeah.
Kira Troilo (45:55.545)
Mm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (46:04.047)
it should be mandated through the show that you're in, wherever you are in the country. Because at any given time, there are thousands of shows being produced across the country. If we just worked on getting people who are doing shows to vote, we'd have a more representative election. then also equity education. mean, if you live in New York, Chicago, or LA, you probably know more about
Kira Troilo (46:25.016)
Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (46:32.405)
you know, union policies for theater and stuff like that, than you would if you were in Ohio.
Kira Troilo (46:38.103)
Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (46:40.583)
or whatever. And I do find that like, I do find that like the older you get the more information you get. Just like you know our regular presidential campaigns and elections, we learn more about politics as we go but we have to figure out a way to make make that information more
readily accessible, not just accessible, but we have to like bring it to people in a more forward way so that we can all be educated on what our union does and what our union could be. And then outside of the responsibility of the actors, I think there's a lot of, I mean it's...
Kira Troilo (47:08.099)
Exactly.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (47:27.406)
It's very clear that there's a lot of embedding between our union and our producers. And I think that there needs to be some separation of church and state when it comes to our union and our producers and the structure of how they negotiate things and just who gets to say what about anything. And also how negotiations go every time they come around. can't just be...
Kira Troilo (47:31.763)
You
Kira Troilo (47:39.37)
Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (47:56.483)
the producers whittling down equity's desires until they get what they want. And that tends to be what happens. I mean, we were on the verge of going full strike this last time, but then we just didn't. And...
Kira Troilo (48:02.935)
Right.
Kira Troilo (48:10.637)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm. Well, and how many people can actually sustain a full strike?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (48:18.403)
Right. So, I mean, even if we did go on strike, it wouldn't last that long because, like you said, we can't sustain it. So we're in a situation where it's like taxation almost, where you don't legally have to pay your taxes. But if you don't pay your taxes...
Kira Troilo (48:34.456)
Mm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (48:43.471)
there will be repercussions. You also won't have a home. You also won't, you know, like, you won't be able to garnish any wages from any companies that, you know, from like any legal tender. So, you know, we're in a, we're in a catch -22 no matter what. I think there needs to be some re -imagining and restructuring across the board about how our governance and...
Kira Troilo (48:47.843)
You... Yeah.
Kira Troilo (49:10.061)
Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (49:11.786)
how our governance is executed because just like American politics, a lot of the laws of the land and the way that we do things does work on paper, but it comes down to interpretation and execution. And the same law in New York is not the same law in Texas, is not the same law in Nebraska, and so on and so forth. So it comes down to execution and figuring out how to make...
Kira Troilo (49:24.494)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (49:38.531)
you.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (49:43.101)
make it easier for us to get to move forward. And I'd also really like to see, and I know that there is a, we do have a PAC, a political PAC, but I'd also really like to see a committed effort from all entertainment industry unions to come together and work to make life easier for...
Kira Troilo (49:46.349)
Mm -hmm.
Kira Troilo (50:07.093)
Mm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (50:10.939)
our industry, which is an industry of service. We do work for profit, but we service people. There's no entertainment. There's no joy without art.
Kira Troilo (50:17.674)
Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (50:25.551)
is a benefit to our culture, to our society, and to our people, and it should be respected in that way. It's right up there with educators and doctors and lawyers in its own capacity. Maybe not as pressing as those things, but...
Kira Troilo (50:30.826)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (50:39.318)
That's right.
Kira Troilo (50:43.626)
But look what happened during COVID. I would argue it is. Where are we? Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (50:46.771)
Yeah, I and also, I also just think like, there's things that we lose over time. The endowment for the arts is going down, and it should, because there are other pressing things, but you have to actually address those other pressing things. like, when you look at the politics of getting money and funds into the arts,
The arts have to support the other things as well in order for us to get what we need. So I would like, and you know, we do it when we need to and there's more of an effort when necessary. know, Equity does endorse its candidate every year that they, you every election that they like. But.
Kira Troilo (51:35.102)
Mm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (51:41.655)
losing taxation, losing tax cuts and deductibles for supplies and your agent fees and all of those things that we used to be able to write off was such a hit. And it also, didn't just affect us, it affected teachers as well. Teachers can't write off office supplies because of that reason. And in most cases, they pay for their own stuff. So a holistic approach to...
Kira Troilo (51:58.016)
Mm -hmm.
Kira Troilo (52:05.854)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (52:11.649)
fixing the problem across the board. And I think we're getting there, but we also have our governance across the board is too, I hate to be ageist, but our governance across the board is too old. on average age, like I think that older voices should be represented, but equally younger voices should be represented to balance out the...
Kira Troilo (52:13.246)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (52:30.376)
Well, it's just a fact.
Kira Troilo (52:35.144)
Yes.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (52:40.321)
intelligentsia in the room.
Kira Troilo (52:42.568)
Right, to get, just a fact, there's not a great diversity of age right now, and there should be.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (52:46.425)
Yeah, yeah, not that 20 year olds should be making decisions about anything, but 20 year olds should be in the room to help make decisions about everything, you know?
Kira Troilo (52:54.472)
Yeah. Right, right, because it's all going to affect them in the future. That's huge.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (52:58.745)
Yeah, and 85 year olds should not be making decisions about anything, but they should be in the room to help make some decisions, you know? I'm sure he's got some ideas.
Kira Troilo (53:02.804)
Yeah, my six -year -old is pretty astute when it comes to, right, like, mommy, why do you have to go teach people how to be kind? I'm like, good question. Really good question.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (53:14.655)
Hahaha
Kira Troilo (53:20.808)
gosh, but yes, absolutely your idea, right? Why can't we come together as unions and see the link, this is all my work, between like caring for and sustaining our artists so that they can sustain people? Like you have those powerful stage door stories, like that's everything, so why aren't we trying to make it easier for the people who do that service? Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (53:27.964)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (53:37.404)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (53:42.662)
There was a... there's our Hamilton's social justice arm is called Ham for Progress. I'm on the board, so to speak. And after the pandemic, during the big push for EDI, they adapted...
pillars, I forget what we call them, basic principles. They adapted principles of our show and what our show hopes to do. And one of those principles was centered around capitalism and everyone found that so weird. And like, everyone's like, what? Like profit is a principle because in order for us to make a
make money as people, our show has to make money. And so we need to find a way to make things profitable for Hamilton so that people in our shows can be better paid, better taken care of, they can also take more time off when there's more funds, things of that nature. And I've been hearing a lot, like in the EDI space, I've been hearing a lot of like eat the rich conversations and stuff like that. And I think that...
Kira Troilo (54:47.998)
Mm -hmm.
Kira Troilo (55:08.157)
Hmm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (55:10.486)
I think that sentiment is important. But when you look at the structure of our world, like Hamilton, the rich and the affluent are just people at the end of the day. And so they're operating in their best interests. because they make commerce, because they make money move, they have louder and
Kira Troilo (55:22.632)
Yep, that's right.
Kira Troilo (55:32.488)
Mm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (55:38.335)
voices in politics and political spaces. I think that we have a history of making the deal more important than making profit more important. And when you make profit possible through capitalism...
That's when we go into our golden era. It's when companies make money hand over fist and people also make money hand over fist. But you have to make a landscape where companies are not more important than people. And where we are right now is that the company is more important than the person.
Kira Troilo (56:11.784)
Mmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (56:16.445)
Me, for instance, Jared Dixon works for JDENT, Incorporated, my company. My company has more tax rights than Jared Dixon, even though Jared Dixon owns a house and has a child and a wife, and I have the assets and commodities, you know, like not my company, but my company...
Kira Troilo (56:26.419)
Right.
Kira Troilo (56:34.707)
Yeah?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (56:37.577)
I have to own a company in order to make tax write -offs for myself. I shouldn't have to do that. I shouldn't have to. that only exists because we had those tax benefits taken away from us. I think it was...
Kira Troilo (56:45.086)
to live. No! No. Playing Aaron Burr on Broadway.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (56:59.718)
12 years ago, if I'm not mistaken. The last tax deductibles came under the Obama administration and then Trump wrote them back and Biden didn't restore them. Hopefully, Kamala will, we'll see. But I've been thinking about what would it look like to educate the middle and lower class to understand...
Kira Troilo (57:01.716)
Mmm.
Kira Troilo (57:11.87)
That's right.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (57:25.881)
how, one, to put money into educating the middle and lower class of every political structure, so this includes equity as well, but our country is large, to educate them about how money circulates in our economy, how and why it's structured the way it is, and then after that education, move to a more progressive view of what it could be if we got more people to be involved in voting. So, and I...
Kira Troilo (57:40.517)
Mm -hmm.
Kira Troilo (57:52.764)
Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (57:55.137)
hear people when they go like, well, this person is helping fund the war in Gaza. Like, I truly hear that because I'm also a black person who says like, these people are also putting guns in civilian, not civilian's hands, but they're also not working to help get police who kill civilians out of their precincts and out of their official districts. So I hear it on that level, but I also know that I don't want to live in
Kira Troilo (58:19.411)
That's right.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (58:25.023)
I want to live in a world with proper and appropriate policing, but I don't want to live in an unsafe world. So, and I heard Kamala explain this brilliantly. She was like, hey,
Kira Troilo (58:25.895)
Mm -hmm.
Kira Troilo (58:33.17)
Right.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (58:38.851)
these white politicians, white hetero cis male politicians or white homosexual cis male politicians or black, whatever. They don't care that little black and brown babies are getting shot and going to jail. They actually don't. What they care about is keeping power.
Kira Troilo (58:50.12)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (59:00.007)
Mmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (59:01.28)
or making profit. They like to keep the profit in the bucket of the police. They're never going to let it go until we make them see that they need to reimagine where that money needs to go to and how that money can be used. And we need to advocate for people who live in their communities to be police and giving them a...
Kira Troilo (59:04.061)
profit.
Kira Troilo (59:11.091)
Hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (59:26.15)
representation in each community, not DEI hires or EDI, like whatever they'll call it, which to me doesn't exist. it's just a hire, they just hired a person. we need to find a way to have a conversation outside of the emotional side of it in order for us to reap the benefits of the reality.
Kira Troilo (59:31.878)
No. Exactly. It's just coded language. Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (59:52.07)
So it's very hard because everything is emotional. It's hard when the country is going backwards in a lot of ways. It's hard to not get emotional about Roe v. being overturned because politicians and also other people are trying to get in between people and their doctors. And I find that very weird. And it's a part of...
Kira Troilo (01:00:13.851)
Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:00:19.728)
It's a part of the work that we need to do to move beyond where we came from. To wrap it all up, the Hamilton era, that's what those politicians would have been doing hundreds of years ago, is talking about whether a woman had the right to do whatever with her body, or whether a man had the right to do whatever with his body, and saying, should we govern that?
Kira Troilo (01:00:28.797)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (01:00:34.246)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (01:00:42.064)
Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:00:48.19)
We just need to educate people to realize that they shouldn't be trying to govern it and we need to make access for it and for certain things of course, but to allow the judgment to fall on the experts, the person and their doctor or the person and their religious leader or the husband and the wife, whatever, or the husband and the husband or the wife and the, you know, whatever.
Kira Troilo (01:01:01.682)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:01:13.857)
So I think we have some work to do in terms of evolving as a people and we have some work to do in terms of evolving as a country and we're at the fork in the road and it's just really hard to push us in the right direction. But so long as we go down the right side of history, it'll work itself out and we have to have faith in that. And I do have faith, I'll say that, after all of the heavy stuff.
Kira Troilo (01:01:22.022)
Mm -hmm.
Kira Troilo (01:01:28.528)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (01:01:35.376)
That's right.
Kira Troilo (01:01:40.222)
for all that. I agree and I do too and I think you know my last question of like what does inclusion look like? I agree with you that it's rather than seeing all of this stuff and being and just being emotional and upset we need to learn how we can make change. So to do that right we have to learn the system we need to learn right how I mean money is just money it's not evil it's the way maybe some people use it but
We need to make, that's what we need to have that re -imagining of our system and of our country. And then, right, my last question for you, like then what does that feel like as a person, as a human being in this industry? Like what is inclusion?
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:02:23.385)
It feels like me having a direct line to Lin -Manuel Miranda to ask him why Bird doesn't get a eighth show off every week. That's what it feels like. Or to me having a direct line to Jeffrey Seller to tell him this actually happened, to speak to him and say, I think you have a colorism issue in your show.
Kira Troilo (01:02:36.979)
Period.
Kira Troilo (01:02:52.807)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:02:53.22)
and for someone on his board to be like, no we don't. And for Lynn to back me up and say, yes we do. And we have a conversation and we go like, okay, well if we have a car -villorism issue, what does it look like? Well I know that only one dark -skinned woman dances for your company in all of the five companies that we have mounted right now. One. She's in my company. And there are...
Kira Troilo (01:03:00.659)
That's right!
Kira Troilo (01:03:15.827)
That's right. One.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:03:23.346)
to two or three brown skinned women, but then most of the women are fair skinned to white. And so are you making, like, I don't think that you did that on purpose, but can we talk about it? Are you making opportunities for darker toned women to be in the show? Like, when a darker woman comes into the space, are we talking about our biases beforehand to be like, are we looking at this woman as her skin tone or are we looking at her dancing ability?
Kira Troilo (01:03:35.505)
No, but can we talk about it?
Kira Troilo (01:03:52.475)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:03:52.731)
And then you can also say to me, well, it just so happens that dark -skinned women are not dancing in Broadway shows as much as we think they are. There's not as many of them as you think there are. And that's a fair conversation. OK, so.
Kira Troilo (01:04:09.083)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:04:10.181)
If dark skinned women are not trying to be in Broadway shows, why? And can we make access for dark skinned women who are in college to have a pathway to hoping that they could be in a Broadway show and auditioning for one? And maybe we never fix Hamilton's colorism problem, but we make an opportunity for dark skinned women to feel seen in the Broadway world so that one day more dark skinned women can dance in Hamilton. And that conversation actually happened. I don't know if we've made...
Kira Troilo (01:04:21.435)
Yeah.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:04:39.591)
tons of progress on it, but I do know that I felt more comfortable having that conversation with the people in power than I would have a year prior before the pandemic. I left that phone call and I was like, I'm gonna get fired. but I...
Kira Troilo (01:04:56.353)
yeah most people would not be having that conversation as an actor.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:04:58.411)
Yeah, but I ended up becoming really good friends with the person that I posed the question to because of that conversation. And we continue to have hard, she's my boss, we continue to have hard conversations and we have fallen out a handful of times over hard conversations, but we continue to push each other. And I find that...
galvanizing, like, you know, to be able to do that. I hope that the poorest person in our country one day can...
get a direct line to the president, or their governor, or senator, or their mayor, or the police chief, or the fire chief, and just say, this is the thing that I think needs to happen in my community. Maybe I don't know how to fix it, but maybe you can tell me why it exists, and we can have a conversation with someone who does know how to fix it, or at least has an idea, and move forward from that. The more opportunity we have to center conversations like that, the better we are, as opposed to people in power arguing with people.
Kira Troilo (01:05:33.008)
Mmm.
Kira Troilo (01:05:56.849)
Mm
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:06:00.598)
and power, which is the politics that we do now. know, Elon Musk shouldn't have anything to say to Colin Loharis. That's just a fact. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (01:06:08.881)
Right, right. You're gonna have to come back. Maybe season three, we'll check in. Hopefully we'll be under a new president. Yeah, thank you so much for your generosity and time and energy and just you've shared so many things I know are gonna really help and resonate with other people. So thank you so much. Yay.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:06:14.078)
I will, anytime, anytime.
Jared Dixon (he/him) (01:06:31.756)
Thank you, Kira.
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