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In the Season 1 finale of Inclusive Stages, you’re in for a treat! My husband and actor Jared Troilo joins me for an incredibly vulnerable and candid conversation. We touch on a variety of subjects—everything from the racial reckoning of 2020, to his 20+ year acting career, to parenting in the theater industry, what it feels like being a Jewish actor right now, and the importance of curiosity.
We believe in the power of this EDI work and it’s touched our lives in a profound way. It’s our hope that by sharing our story and critical conversations we’ve had that it will inspire change in your life and your community. You won’t want to miss this episode—if for no other reason than to hear our personal life update! Enjoy the show!
In this episode, we cover:
How Jared got his start in musical theater
When Kira and Jared met
What it’s like being an introverted actor
What the acting community is like
What Jared’s adult theater and performance career has been like
What family life is like for Kira and Jared as a couple doing theater
The benefits of raising children in and around the theater community
What the racial reckoning in 2020 was like from Jared’s perspective
How conversations with Jared inspired Kira to start her EDI work
What it was like for Jared to be the only white member of a production
How the Jewish theater community has been feeling these last several months
How we can create rooms where disagreement is—and still create a culture of belonging
Where social media fits into the inclusivity conversation in the arts
What Jared has observed in watching Kira begin her company and have these conversations
Everything Jared has gained because of the theater and his hopes for the future
How have you perhaps not felt seen or heard? And did this discussion give you any hope or insights? If you’d like to share, we’d love to hear from you—find us on Instagram!
More About Jared Troilo
Jared is a Boston-based actor, singer, dancer, pianist, and music director who's had the great fortune of performing all over the world. The Boston Globe has cited him as one of the best and most versatile actors in Boston. He's appeared on the stages of Huntington, Speakeasy Stage Company, The Lyric Stage, Wheelock Family Theater, Moonbox Productions, Palace Theater, Shadowland Stages, on and on and on and on—so many places. He's also had the honor of performing at Symphony Hall in Boston under the direction of Keith Lockhart. He's also an Ernie Award winner for his performance in She Loves Me at Greater Boston Stage Company. A four -time Elliot Norton Award nominee for his work in the last five years, A Gentleman's Guide to Love and Murder, Oklahoma, and The Band's Visit. You can see him on TV and film—most notably the film called About Fate on Amazon. He's a graduate of the Boston Conservatory and an AEA member. And he has a beautiful son, Levi.
Links & Mentioned Resources
Connect with Jared:
Connect with Kira:
Thanks for joining me on this episode of Inclusive Stages! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help me reach even more theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone.
Thanks to our music composer, Zachary McConnell, and our producer, Leah Bryant.
More about the Inclusive Stages Podcast
Welcome to 'Inclusive Stages' -- the go-to weekly podcast for theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone. We'll chat with actors, directors, designers, scholars, and more about the current landscape of the theater scene and get their thoughts on how we can do better.
Host Kira Troilo will also give you a sneak peek into live EDI coaching sessions and offer actionable tips for creating more equitable, inclusive, and empathetic theater spaces that support and value the diversity of artists and audiences. Join the conversation, and let's collectively shape the future of human-first theater, one stage at a time.
This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you.
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Inclusive Stages podcast follows
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo & Jared Troilo (00:00.446)
Hi honey. Hi. This is very strange. Yes it is, but it's also amazing. How are you? I'm good. We're sharing one microphone because we didn't think it was... we should purchase another one for this for some reason. So we're literally squeezed next to each other doing a podcast. Yeah, it's pretty cozy. I was saying that normally when I do my work, and we'll get into this, you're an actor, so we try to stay as far apart as possible.
because I'm there to be the equity, diversity and inclusion consultant and you're there to be the actor. So this is a huge treat to be snuggled close and talking on the podcast. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's...
That's so true. When you work as an EDI consultant, you have to kind of keep your distance. And rightfully so, so people know that we are not the same entity, that we are, that you do not share what's happening in the room with me. You actually keep a very, you're very cold when it comes to that kind of stuff. Because you have to keep your credibility, and that's how you do it, by keeping things secret from me. So I have no idea what you do all day, every day. Well, you have some idea, but you know where I am, at least. Yes, yes, but I don't know what the problems that you're, the fires you're putting out, the problems you're solving, all that stuff.
kept from me so this is pretty this is it's nice to be next to you yeah yeah that's all that's it yeah that's the episode no i want to start the same way i start with everyone else so would you mind sharing with everyone what your theater origin story is well
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (01:33.311)
Sure. I started really young. I was nine years old when I did my first play. And it was because my parents, your in -laws, used to take me to the Shrewsbury High School musicals every single year. And I saw, you know, Peter, this was in the 90s, I saw Peter Pan and Lil Avner and anything goes. And I just remember being floored by them. In retrospect, I have no idea how good they actually were. But at the time, to a seven, eight year old boy, they were just incredible, the most spectacular things I'd ever seen.
And I knew that they were kind of my people. Like they were the strange people I wanted to associate myself with. So my mom saw this in me. She saw it, which I think is so important that parents, you know, if they see that artistic spark in a child to...
push them towards it and my mom did and she saw this ad in the, I think it was in the Worcester Telegram and Gazette that there was a children's theater called K &K Productions and they were doing a show called Hagar the Horrible which is based on an old comic strip about Vikings and my mom signed me up for the audition and I had never sung before, never danced, never acted before, I just kind of went and I got cast in like a...
a pretty good role, like a supporting role. The cast is the boyfriend to the daughter of Hagar. And he had his own song, I was really excited, it was a great first role for me. Fast forward four weeks or so, and for some reason the kid who was playing Hagar had to drop out.
And so they had another round of auditions for who was going to take over the role. And I got the part of Hagar, the lead role in this children's production of Hagar the Horrible. And I just fell in love with it. I don't know how good I was. I still have a video of it, but I'm not sure how good I was. But I just...
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (03:14.652)
From that day forward, I just kind of enthralled myself in all things artistic and performance. I started taking piano lessons and voice lessons and dance classes and acting classes. And I did as much theater as I possibly could because I was just horribly, horribly addicted to it. And I still am. 30 years later, I'm still like, I crave it when I'm not with it. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Right. And you were doing every sport under the sun at the time, too, and just...
I was, yeah. I was playing, like most boys that age, I was playing soccer and baseball and hockey and they just slowly kind of one by one started to fade away because I lost interest in that. And I had found what I felt was my calling and still is my calling and I've just been doing it ever since. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, and another fun fact, we've known each other technically since the first grade. We became friends in high school, but I always, people are always surprised when, if you've seen Jared on stage, if you're in the Boston area, I'm sure you have. People are surprised to know that he was really shy. He was shy and he still is shy. So yeah, I just love, I think there are a lot of people who identify as introverts who love theater. So can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, I think I,
For a variety of reasons, I was very shy, still am, but was very shy in elementary school, middle school, and high school. And I just found that in the theater, playing a character, it was an excuse.
to not be me. I didn't have to be shy because I wasn't my identity anymore. I was playing a Viking or I was playing Charlie Brown or I was playing Jekyll and Hyde. And these people were not shy. And so it was an excuse for me to be somebody who I wasn't. And that was really joyful for me. As sad as it sounds, because I love who I am and I love the life that I have, but it was just a chance to...
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (05:09.785)
to be somebody else and I found it to be incredibly freeing. I still do, but especially as a child to have that outlet was so...
important to me and so I mean I encourage you know parents always say to you know I talk to parents about their kids and they say you know my kid's really outgoing I think he's meant for the theater yes that might be true but it's also the quiet kids it's the shy kids it's the ones that haven't found a community or a place where they belong those are the kids I think that really need the arts and I would say if you have a kid out there that's like that that might be this might be the place for him yeah yeah yeah
That is how I feel too, even just, you know, I'm not acting anymore, but I still just feel part of this community and I think that that's...
that's crucial. It's just this, this community that people can feel like they belong to. Right. And it's known for being a very inclusive community. But of course we've learned over the past several years that it's not as inclusive as it could be or should be, which is why we have people like you to, to get us back in the shape and to teach us some things. Yeah. I'm trying and we'll get into it. I want to talk about, you know, we have the benefit of here's the person who's watched me start this company. So I, you know, I want to hear.
a little bit about your perspective. But first, just I'd love to hear a little bit about your adult career.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (06:31.64)
like you went to school at the Boston Conservatory and then, you know, what is your theater career or your even performance career looked like since? Yeah, it's been wild. I've been so blessed really to, well, spoiler alert, I'm 38 years old. Me too. And thank God, yeah. And so I've been doing this since I graduated, I mean really since before I graduated. My first professional job was when I was 19. So I'm coming up on 20 years of doing this professionally. And it's been wild. I graduated from school in 2008,
from Boston Conservatory, which I loved most of my time there. We won't go into all that. As any student who goes to a conservatory, they're not going to love every single thing about it because it's hard. It's just a hard school to go to and it's a hard career to pursue because it's so...
challenging and competitive and cutthroat at times. And everyone who goes there is the best from where they came from. Sure. Yeah. And I moved to New York afterwards because I thought that's what you were supposed to do. And I did pretty well in New York, but most of the work I was getting was for regional theaters. And for listeners, I don't know what that is. Regional theaters tend to be theaters that are outside of New York, all across the country. So I was getting, I was auditioning in New York for these theaters that were in Orlando or Maine or
or Pennsylvania or New Hampshire. I did a show in Ohio and California. And I was getting hired by these theaters, so I would have to essentially quit my day job and find a sublet for my apartment and go and work in this theater in, you know, Idaho for seven weeks and then come back and kind of restart my life in New York. And that got really tedious because I just never felt like New York was ever my home because I kept leaving. I also started working on cruise ships a lot. I did a lot of singing on cruise ships.
which was wonderful. And I got to travel the world. But again, I never felt like New York was my home because I wasn't booking work there. I was fortunate to be working as a performer, but it wasn't in New York. So after I returned from my last cruise ship job, I had a girlfriend at the time named Kira Cowan at the time. Spoiler alert. Yes. And she was living in Boston, so I decided to move back here for a little bit. And I kind of immersed myself in the scene here because I thought, wouldn't it be wonderful to work?
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (08:47.719)
and live in the same place. It just sounded so freeing and so relaxing and so much easier. And I did, and I immersed myself in the scene here and I just fell in love with it. I love the people here. I've worked really consistently for the past, I mean I moved back here, I think it's been almost...
It's been 10 years since I moved back, well 11 years, and I've been so fortunate. I do maybe four, five, six shows a year. I do a lot of commercials and TV and print work, and I sing in a lot of retirement centers and cabarets, and I've just kind of made this really interesting career for myself, and it was the best decision I ever made. So I'm really proud and thrilled to be a Boston performer, because it's led to so many wonderful opportunities for me.
Yeah. And I get to make a living doing it, which is such a rare thing in this field. It is so rare and right. One of the benefits, you know, as as your wife, it's wonderful to have you be able to audition. So many benefits to being my wife. You heard it here. So many benefits to auditioning for a season and then knowing in, you know, June, July what the year is going to look like coming up. Because this life, you know, people ask all the time, like as a couple doing
theater and the travel and all of that, that's hard enough. But now, you know, we have a six -year -old named Levi. He's the light of our lives. He's on my mug for filming. He's right there. So.
you know, being a parent and, you know, also this is probably the time to say we are expecting another member of our family. I didn't know that. Surprise. Who's the father? Yeah. So yeah, we have another baby coming at the end of September. Another baby boy. Another baby boy. Yes. Well, and people have been talking to me about how important it is to raise, you know, boys in a...
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (10:42.868)
in this kind of kind, inclusive way. So we're really just loving raising one boy, looking forward to raising two. But yeah, I'd love to hear you talk about being a dad in theater and balancing that. We have the benefit of being in this now, right? We live close to where you work most of the time, but there is travel, there are late nights. No, it's very difficult. This is not...
Unfortunately, it's not a business built for parents yet. Right. For several reasons, and this is, I'm not pointing the finger and blaming anybody, it's just the culture that currently exists. The hours are not, they don't jive well with, jive? Yeah, they don't jive. With being a parent, because I miss a lot of bedtimes, I miss a lot of dinnertime, I miss a lot of pickups, I miss a lot of birthdays, not his birthday of course, but I miss a lot of...
parenting events because my hours mostly happen in the night. I'm always performing in the evening or I'm rehearsing in the evening. So that makes it difficult, number one. And also there's no, what's the word? There's no...
parenting, help, what's the word I'm looking for? Support, childcare. Childcare, well there's no childcare provided by theater companies. That's right. They don't have, it's not like some companies have like you can bring, they have a daycare at your work and you can drop your child off, you can go do your work, you can pick him up afterwards and then you go home. That doesn't really exist on a large scale. I know that you are largely trying to push theaters into that realm, which I think is wonderful, but it doesn't exist yet. Especially, you know,
for the theater. So that makes it difficult. Having said all of that, we are very fortunate because we have our parents, Levi's grandparents, who love him and adore him and are mostly retired and are always willing to watch him when we need him, which is the only reason I'm able to do this professionally. The only reason you're able to do what you do professionally is because we have that child care. If we didn't, we'd have to choose other careers. It's that simple. Yep.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (12:56.53)
because we would choose him over theater, as much as we love it, we would choose him any day of the week. Of course. Both of our kids that are, one is growing currently. Yes.
So yeah, it's very difficult, but we communicate a lot. We schedule a lot. We have help and we just do our best. And we are both very involved parents. So when we can be there, we are there 110%. I'm also the soccer coach. I feel like I'm going to end up as the baseball coach eventually. I pick him up whenever I can. I bring him to school whenever I can. I'm with him as many mornings as I can be because he's the most important thing. Yeah. And yeah, it's so hard and I've talked to him.
talked to guests who in this in this season about, you know, being a parent, like even 30 years ago. And now it's a little better, but it's still hard. But there are such moments of joy that we get to have him as part of our theater experience as well. You know, we're going to talk about the dark times of COVID, of course. But before that, you know, our little baby Levi was coming to rehearsals. And, you know, if I was rehearsing.
Jared would bring him to see me do my thing and then I would bring him to see Jared do his thing. So we've gotten to have him as embedded into the theater process for us as we can. And now that I have the agency to just kind of do what I want with my business, I bring him to theaters and he runs around and just that exposure is great. So there's a lot of joy in it too.
Yeah, yeah, and people always ask me, you know, is he going to go into the theater? And I think he is a very artistic kid. I think we spot that in him. But it's certainly not something I'm going to force upon him.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (14:40.816)
But it's something that, but even so, I think being in an artistic community is so beneficial to children that it doesn't even matter if this is what he wants to do or if he wants to be a doctor or a teacher, whatever he wants to do. I think there's so much benefit to being in that community and being around artistic people. I think it's eye -opening and it's educational. And you learn about a lot of different kinds of people, which is kind of what your Holstic is, is inclusion and equity and diversity, which I think is wonderful. Yeah.
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, so, you know, when we went into the 2020 time, Levi had just turned two, so it was a really tough time, obviously, for everyone, but, you know, we could no longer work in the theater, let alone bring him into the theater. I know I've talked on the podcast before about my journey and how I kind of used that time to figure out who I was and what I...
wanted to do with my life. And, you know, we have the person here who watched me go through all of that. For those who are just listening, you know, I'm a black biracial woman who grew up in Trusbury, Massachusetts with Jared, who is a Jewish man. And, you know, we never talked growing up, really never talked about race. It was something.
especially in the 90s, and it was just like, we're like, yeah, we don't see color. I feel like in the 90s, and especially in the early 2000s when we were teenagers, that there was this attitude, this idea of we've come so far, which is true, we've made a lot of progress, that the work is done. I think that was kind of the idea that was kind of implanted into our...
which wasn't, you know, we weren't being indoctrinated, it was just that was the culture at the time, like this is not something we need to talk about anymore because we've done the work. That's right. You know, we have equal rights under the law, so all is well. And I think the past few years especially.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (16:43.791)
I mean, more than that, but especially the past few years, we've really started to dive into, well, actually, there's, it's not quite as fair as we'd like it to be yet. Yeah, exactly. And before just, I mean, I think people are always surprised and they see us, you know, like a mixed race couple. And I say, yeah, like we just never really talked about race till 2020. Like it was just,
You know, we're both curious people. I was really always curious to go to the Bat Mitzvahs and the Jewish weddings and, you know, Jared's coming to my family cookouts and things like that. So, yeah, just from your experience, you know, when there was, you know, the kind of racial reckoning going on and I was starting to figure out who I was, what was that time like for you? You know, it was a very confusing.
time. I think no one can dispute the horrible murder of George Floyd that happened that awful. It was one of those moments where you couldn't believe your eyes and yet you could believe your eyes and that was what was really tragic about it. I think in the weeks and months that followed, to watch the fallout from that and the repercussions of that,
I could see you struggling and I didn't really know why. I mean, yes, I knew why, but I didn't know how you were struggling.
because I would see something on the news and I'd be like, I'd feel like, that's awful, that's terrible. And you would see something completely different. You would see the cause of it and not the effect of it, if that makes sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And it doesn't make anything that I saw right, but you would see it through a different lens. And I think that was the first time I saw that...
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (18:40.367)
we just see the country differently because of our background. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's America. We're all gonna have a different relationship to our country. We're all different. But I think that was the first time when I saw the split between us in that sense. Like we just have different perspectives here and they're not the same, but we do have to understand each other's perspectives because we would...
have sometimes arguments about this and I would say you know well this is what's happening you say no but this is happening because of this and
And we would get all heated. And at the end of the day, I think we both just kind of realized, you know what? We see things differently and that's OK. Yeah. As long as we understand why we see see things differently and how we can support each other. That's right. Yeah. And it was, you know, we're we're a married couple. Like we have fights like anyone else. And I think it was really important for that at that time for us to have those fights. I was whenever I tell the story, I say, you know, I talked to my parents about,
you know, the first time it was like, there is this racial divide between us. And it was the first time I'd felt that. And my parents kind of laughed. We were wondering when it was going to come up, you know, and now I could laugh along with them because it was so important for us to have those conversations. And for it, I, I,
say very carefully, like, I don't want to give Jared credit for starting my business, but you can. But I will say, yes, those conversations and those really hard days were what got me thinking about, you know, a lot of a lot of this is a generalization, but a lot of black people were home in COVID with other black people getting heated and angry and feeling what that was. And I was at home trying to connect with my white husband in a in a way where he could understand where I was coming from.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (20:38.638)
and why things were upsetting me on a deep level. So I gained these skills to talk across divides in that time. And I won't say gained, I'd been doing it my whole life really, but it was just so important for my personal and business development and also our marriage. Now, just a few short years later, like,
we can do this, we can have this conversation on the podcast, you know, we've come a really long way. So. Right. And I think it's not about finding agreement as much as finding empathy and saying, I don't agree with your take on what's happening right now, but I understand why you're saying that. I understand why you think that. And I think that's kind of the basis of, of, of your EDI work, which is what makes it, I think, different than.
some other EDI work that you may have come into contact with. I know for me, my first tastes, my first experiences with EDI work were not positive. I supported the idea of it, but then when I was actually in the room experiencing it, people that are not you, I didn't like it. I felt shamed. I felt hurt. I felt angry and I did not want to say a word. I was told to check my privilege and don't say a word because of who I am.
and that was hurtful because these people that were running these workshops don't know who I am. They never met me before. They don't know anything about me. And even if they did...
my perspective is still valuable. If I'm a part of this team, if I'm in this working environment, what I feel and think is still valuable. That's right. So I felt initially with a lot of EDI work, it was very much, which is, you know, I think EDI gets a bad rap because of these initial people that were doing the work. It was a lot of shaming, a lot of saying, you all have been bad for too long and now we're going to change things. And things did need to change. Yes. But that's not how you change things. You don't change.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (22:43.343)
You don't change by shaming well -intentioned people. There has to be a communication, there has to be a conversation, and there has to be empathy, otherwise it's just not going to work. That's what it is. Yeah. And right, just seeing that too in real time in my house of, you know, what kind of conversations connect? Like, where can we connect here and get curious about each other? And you know, that's when we can really do some learning.
growing. And yeah, I mean, I was seeing it in my house and I was seeing it in the world is just, you know, telling people that they should be ashamed and that they're bad is not a way into this work. Yeah. Yeah, no, and I remember when you started kind of, you know, dipping your toe into this world, into this work, it didn't really feel like it was quote unquote EDI work or DEI work. It felt like it was something else, which is, I think,
why so many people take to you because I think initially you come to a company or they -
come to you and they'll say, yeah, I don't think we're really interested in EDI work, but thank you. And then they hear what you have to say and they're like, you're right. We really do need that. I didn't know that's what this was, but that's what we need. And I think that's what sets you apart from the rest of the industry is it's different. It's more inclusive really. And it's actually productive. We actually get somewhere instead of just making people feel bad or silenced or scared to speak.
Thank you. Well, you know, this interview is about you, but I am biased. But it is true. I've worked with you several times as an EDI person and I've worked with several people in the EDI field and it only really works with you. I don't know what it is. It's just a different philosophy and it's why people are like...
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (24:36.747)
your wife is changing the world. People say this to me all, again, people keep things from me. I mean, Akira keeps things from me so that I don't know what's actually happening. I don't know how many people she's helping, but people come up to me all the time and say, your wife saved my life, or your wife saved this whole experience for me, or I would not have gotten through this without your wife. And I believe it because I can see it in their eyes and their other...
close to the brink of tears and they'll start to tell me what happened. I'm like, no, no, no, don't tell me. It's secret. It's just for you guys, but it's real. I think you're the only person in the world doing this work correctly. I don't know about that.
Don't come at me. I don't know everybody. In my experience, you're the only person that I've seen doing it correctly and productively. And so it's been great to watch you achieve so much success. Yeah. Thanks, honey. I mean, I think that the diff... Yeah, I mean, the difference in a nutshell is just inclusion is everyone's work. It's not just the work of, you know, certain marginalized communities. It's for everyone. And even I know you've had experiences where...
I think about.
you know, being with an entirely black cast and you're the only white cast member, you know? Sure. No, I mean, listen, the first time that happened to me was in 2021, just right after all this, the craziness and, well, in the midst of it, I guess. I worked on this wonderful play called TJ Loves Sally Forever by James Iams with Speakeasy Stage Company. It was a wonderful experience. I have nothing negative to say about the experience, but it was the first time that I was the only.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (26:22.013)
white cast member within a predominantly black cast with a black creative team. And it was wild. It was just it was so beneficial to me to like to actually experience it because even though everyone was so welcoming and warm and and empathetic in that room and they were.
I still was very well aware that I was the only white person and that there were things being discussed that...
You know, I may have had a little bit of insight into just living with you and knowing your family. Yeah. And like they said, you're cool because your wife is with us in our community. But there were things that went right over my head sometimes. And I was... No one was responsible for this, but I was at times afraid to say, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm sorry. I know what code switching is, but I don't understand what this part of it is. And...
And I mean, there's a variety of reasons why I felt that way. I think it was mostly to do with my own internal struggle. Like, should I ask this question? Should I not? Am I being offensive if I do? But I just wish we can, I hope that we can, as we keep moving forward, you know, allow for those kind of questions, because I think that's where empathy comes from, is like, I would love to know more about this. I've done my research. I still don't quite understand it. Can you tell me what a real life lived experience with this really is?
So yeah, that experience was huge for me. And also just to understand, my black actor friends feel like that all the time. That's right. Always, I mean, you talk a lot about being on the list, the black actor list or the person of color list. That's right. And yes, my friends feel like that all the time. I can...
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (28:15.497)
I can name off my head several times where you have been the only person of color in a cast. That's right. In a professional show. And I can think back into all the shows I've done and think, yeah, he was the only person of color in that cast or she was the only. But that happens all the time. And so it just gains me some greater empathy for that and some greater understanding. And yeah, it's something really every white person should experience. Yeah. Just being the only white person in the room. So it's eye -opening. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. And that experience you're talking about helps me guide the conversation. It's earlier in the podcast, I have an episode with John Volante and Tori Omereji about this show, Fairview. We talked about where the white actors and the black actors had to form...
a dialogue between them so they could talk and feel comfortable and safe and ask questions and make mistakes and all of that. Like it's just, it's so important. sure. So yeah. I want to switch gears a little bit because you had said something to me and we'll cut it if you don't want it said on air, but with what's going on right now in the world.
you had said to me, you know, I kind of have a little window into what it felt like maybe for you at the time of the racial reckoning. Sure. With everything going on, just for folks to know in the fall.
Jared did a couple of plays that were, one was called Prayer for the French Republic that was about, well I'll let you share what it was about. Sure. Well yes, so on October 7th I was actually in performances for a play by Joshua Harmon called Prayer for the French Republic. It's a play that discusses antisemitism, it's about a Jewish family. I was playing a Holocaust survivor. It's a beautiful play, it was just on Broadway. It's up for a Tony Award.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (30:15.211)
Yes, so good. It was just a wonderful experience. I was so honored to be a part of it and be closed on October 8th. And October 7th, or 8th or 9th, I can't remember. I think because then you started the band, so it was on October 10th. But we had a performance on October 7th and then the day following. And for me it was actually kind of a blessing in disguise to have that play because in a way it was a way to make a statement.
without having to make a statement. And actually our director came down closing night and said, you know, so many people have asked me for my statement and I just keep saying the play is our statement, which is exactly how I think theater should be. I think, you know, theater is inherently political, but we don't have to make it political. Just show it and people will take what they will from it. So that was kind of a blessing. So I actually appreciated it. I can't speak for the whole cast. I don't know how the whole cast felt about it, but for me, it was very therapeutic to have that outlet, to have that plate.
to express what I was feeling and what I was thinking. In the weeks and months that have followed, especially towards the end of 2023, but into 2024 as well, I have never seen or experienced or felt coming at me so much antisemitism in my life. Some of it was intentional.
A lot of it was ignorant, people saying one thing and thinking it means one thing, when in fact I know that's not what that means. And it was coming from people within the theatrical community. You know, theaters tend to be very left -wing groups, which is, you know, I'm a liberal myself, so I'm down with my liberal homies. But there was a lot of hate being spewed, either intentionally or ignorantly.
And it got to a point where I did not feel safe every day going to work. I did not feel included. There are still days where I feel that way. And that's no one's fault in the theaters I was working for. They didn't do anything. Nothing was being done that was wrong. But things were being said on social media and elsewhere, in my DMs. And then I would go to work with these people.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (32:37.479)
I don't want to dive into the political because I think people, when we get political, people tend to tune out. I'd rather make this more about what it was like to be a Jewish actor at this time. Yeah. Because I reached out to several Jewish friends of mine, Jewish actor friends of mine, and I would say, are you feeling this like I'm feeling this? And then they would say, yes. We don't feel safe. We don't feel wanted. We don't feel heard.
And so in that sense, it was kind of connected to 2020 because I think that's how a lot of my black actors felt at the time. We're like, we see you, white American theater is written, was basically a way of saying, you're not hearing us. You haven't heard us for years. This is what we're saying. And that's how it felt for me. I think what added to the pain of it was that,
Just to go back, I don't think theaters should or are required to make political statements. Right, well you know how I feel about statements. Right, like I said before, I think statements should come in the work. I think that's where theater makes the strongest statements is in the actual performances. Yeah, and offstage in the work they do. Right, but there was this precedent set, particularly after George Floyd, where theater started making political statements. Black Lives Matter statements.
LGBTQ statements when horrible tragedies would happen in that community. That's right. After October 7th, there was a deafening silence from a lot of arts organizations. That's right. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision to be silent. I know it's a complicated situation. Yeah. But your Jewish artists felt that silence loud and clear. Yeah. And so that did not help the situation. Right.
And that's all I'll say about that. So I will just say that it's hard to be a Jewish actor right now. And to just try, all I'll just say is if you have a Jewish actor friend, just know that they might not be okay. Or a Jewish artist friend, they might need some help. They need to feel included.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (34:54.439)
and safe and they might not and you don't have to agree with why they don't you don't have to agree with them at all and guess what? Jews don't all agree either. We fight all the time. But just know that for a variety of reasons we feel unsteady. Yeah. And maybe have an empathetic word or you know hug for them. Yeah and this is just you know where obviously
you know, racial reckoning of 2020 is not the same as what's going on in the world right now. But I will say for Jared and I to be able to talk about these things and listen and hear each other and just embrace the nuance of all of it. It's just crucial. And I take those skills with me into rooms where, you know, like we did a show or well, you didn't.
Let me start that over, Leah. Don't say we. You did a show where it was Egyptians and Israelis working together. So how can we, and this is a big question I'm still working on, is in theater, we're talking about difficult topics. Like Jared said, theater is political. So how can we get in a room with people who we maybe don't agree with?
and still create a culture of belonging and space for everyone to feel human. Well, yes, and the play you're talking about was The Band's Visit, which was this wonderful production I did in Boston. And I think, honestly,
Our director, with probably some good advice, set a wonderful blueprint. He reminded us every day of our shared humanity, which is not easy to do because again, this was the week following October 7th, we had a room full of Israelis and Jews and Muslims and Egyptians and Iranians and Iraqis and none of the above and all of the above. Yeah.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (36:57.127)
And we were doing this play about connection. You could say this is the worst timing to do this show, or you could say this is the best time to do this show. Depending on how you set it up. Right. And it turns out it was the best time because we all connected.
like the characters do. We talked about food, we talked about music, we talked about family, we talked about marriage, we talked about kids, we talked about the things that make us the same. Our shared experiences, and it was one of the most beautiful artistic experiences because of that. Now if our wonderful director, who I'll name because I'm giving him compliments, Paul Danio, hadn't set up that room, the show wouldn't have happened.
We had people in that room that had just lost loved ones the week before. And everyone on social media and in the actual media are pointing fingers and saying it's their fault, no it's their fault, no it's their fault. We got in the room and said...
We're not going to talk about whose fault it is, who's at fault or who isn't at fault. We're just going to remind ourselves of the world that we want. We want a peaceful world. You all just want to live and raise our families and raise our kids and have some fun along the way. Right. And so I'm very grateful that Paul set that room up for us because we may have failed if he didn't. Right. And I think it's important to say, you know, like in our private lives, our personal lives, we can have those conversations and debates and all of that. But like we're talking about a workplace, you know, like when we
go into rehearse a play or perform a play, we're at work. And I think that sometimes it gets lost because we love it. We're having fun. It's passion. But like, it's anyone who's not in the theater, it's like you get to go to work and just hopefully feel, hopefully feel like a human who belongs there. Yeah, I will say something that I think has been poisonous to that is social media, which I think is just a poison to society. Yeah. But, but it's there. We're working on getting you, getting you less. I know. But it's there.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (38:53.864)
and it's gonna be here I assume forever. Yeah. And what I would just say is just...
Think twice before you post. Post with empathy because you don't know how something is going to hit someone that you're working with or someone that you know. And I go back to the ignorant hate. It's just as bad as the intentional hate. Posting slogans that actually have a different meaning than what you're preaching.
Just think twice, especially when you're doing a show and we have to connect with each other and we have to get intimate in certain ways. Don't let that derail your experience or derail someone else's experience. A cast is a team, so let's not...
do something that's gonna hopefully, that might wreck that experience for people. Yeah. Yep. And I see, you know, Jared says post cautiously and I say, have the conversations offline? Yes. Absolutely. I've started, you know, I realized and then, you know, in my anger in 2020 of seeing people post things and just being so mad and trying to make my point on the screen. And then, you know, I've come to this realization of I'm never gonna...
I'm never going to have a meaningful conversation with someone. Like, I can't explain why All Lives Matter hurts me via social media in a way that they're going to hear it. I can get offline. I can look someone in the eye. And I can engage in a kind and curious conversation. And maybe we can find.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (40:33.99)
some you know empathy there. Right and that's the point and the point of theater again is to build these communities together and that everyone's invited no matter what your race, color, orientation, religion, political views, everyone's allowed at the table in theater. So that's why people like you need to exist because
we have to figure out how to work together. And we have to figure out how to have those conversations if we need to. And again, it's about disagreeing in good faith and saying, you know what, I don't agree with you on that, but you're a really good father. But you're really funny. Finding ways to connect and to enjoy each other. I think we spend way too much time on the things that make us different.
And in theater, we have to find ways that we're the same at times. And I think that's important. Right. And that's how we open up to each other when we feel safe enough to feel connected. And that's when we can start learning and changing and growing. If there's growth or change, that should happen. Yeah.
yes. I feel like this is the natural progression to the question of what does inclusive theater look like to you? This is the last episode of season one, so you get the final word on inclusion going forward for this season. I know, I think it's what I just said. I think it's a community, a business, a company.
where everyone's included, anyone, no matter what you think is invited at the table to do something in the theater, and you don't have to be afraid. I do think that there are people that, and I felt it for the first time this past year, that are afraid to be in artistic communities because of where they're from, because of what they look like, because of what they think, because of how they were raised. We gotta do away with that.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (42:37.254)
The theater should be, it might be the only place, but it needs to be a place where everyone is welcome because it saved my life, it saved many lives, and we shouldn't be shutting people away. That's not the theater I want to be a part of. And I think, I don't know if we'll ever get there, but I think we've got to keep working towards that goal. We're going to try.
That's your job. Yeah. You met a pretty cute girl along the way too. you mean you. Yes. I did. I did. I could not be... Listen, all the good things in my life are from the theater. The best people I've met, my wife. Obviously wouldn't have my kids without having met you. The theater, yep. It's the best thing in the world, best thing in my life, and I just want it to be better for everybody. Yeah. Me too. Yeah.
I never want this conversation to end. I mean, you're in charge. I know. Well, yeah, I'm just we're obviously you're going to come back for season two. I think the one final, final question I'll ask you as we wrap this season is just like, what has it been like for you to watch? You know, you've said a little bit about it throughout our conversation, but what has it been like to watch particularly the last year of
you know, this podcast starting and the conversations that I'm having and, you know, what are you seeing and what are you hoping for in my and our future as partners?
It's been wild, to be honest. It's been crazy, especially the past year, I'd say, where I think, you know, the first year you kind of set a really great business and create a really great business. But this past year, everything has just kind of taken off with the new cohorts and with just some of the major clients that you have. It's wild to have, you know, celebrities walk up to me and be like, your wife saved my life. It's true. It happened this past summer where some big names came up to me. One of them was a guest on your show, I believe. Yeah.
Kira Troilo & Jared Troilo (44:45.864)
and said like, this wouldn't have happened without her and she's what's been missing from the industry. And by the industry, I mean the entire entertainment industry, not just theater. That's been, I'm not surprising, but it's been crazy that it's happened so fast.
So I just can't wait to see where it takes us. I try to be as supportive as I can. I consider myself an honorary employee of Art & Soul and of Inclusive Stages. Yes, social media manager. That's right. And your babysitter when you need one. And yeah. Not babysitter, just dad. Right, right, right. Loving dad. Sure, we'll call it that. Yeah, no, it's true. Yes.
Yeah, so I'm just very, it's an adventure. It's been an adventure and I can't, the fact that the huge leap that we've gone from in 2022 to 2023, I can't wait to see what this next leap is gonna be. And I think you're just gonna keep making leaps every single year. And me and Levi and baby Troilo are gonna go along for the ride and we're there to support you in every way we can. And we're just so proud of you. And we love you so much. I love you.
quite a big amount of the movie, a large amount of the movie. Yeah, he's a movie star. It's a big deal. I'm in one movie. I'm not a movie star. But if you've had a couple glasses of wine and are in a mood for a bad rom - ⁓ don't say that. If you've had a couple glasses of wine and you're in the mood for a rom -com, then check it out. Yeah, it's super fun. It's New Year's Eve themed. It's just great. And yeah, I mean, you'll just see Jared and any of his work and you'll just appreciate how versatile.
I almost forgot to give you the opportunity to plug where people can see you, because people should see you. You're amazing. well, thank you. Well, I'm a... Theatrically, I'm appearing in Guys and Dolls at Greater Boston Stage Company. I'm playing Sky Masterson that opens June 7th and runs to June 30th. And then I'll be in An American in Paris at Regal Music Theater in Waltham playing Adam, and that opens in August, I believe. And then I have a couple other things happening. I actually wrote a show called Fascinating Rhythm, the music of George Gershwin and Leonard Bernstein.
Bernstein. It's a two -person, two -piano, four -hand show. And with my friend Kirsten Salpini, we wrote it together. And we've been booking it all around the country, really. So go to our website, 176keys .com, and you can get all the information there about that. If you want to book us for a show, we'd be happy to talk. Yeah, and we'll put that link in the show notes. A lot of business stuff going on in the Troilo household. Right. And then if you've had a couple glasses of wine and are in the mood for a rom -com, you can go to Amazon Prime and check out
about fate. It's a movie that I appear in. I'm in quite a lot of that movie and it's fun and sweet and silly and yeah. He's a movie star so no. Not a movie star. One movie but I'll take it. Yeah. Yeah that's it. Yay. Well just in case we didn't just in case we didn't get it before yeah it's just been a joy to have front row seats to your growth both obviously as an actor from you know
back in Hagar, the horrible days, and all the way through now. You're just doing so many wonderful things. And of course, the personal growth journey that I get to be with you on. I'm excited to just keep seeing where this road takes us. Thank you, yeah. I mean, I love the theater. I love the theater community. And we're counting on you to make us better. So, you know. Let's do it. Let's see what you got. OK. All right. Love you, honey. Love you, too.