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It’s really important to me to start this podcast off by jumping into the guest seat and being vulnerable myself because, in this podcast, I talk to theater makers, artists, and lovers, and I ask them to share stories and be vulnerable. So, I want to kick it off by sitting in that seat first. I want to tell you a little bit about me, who I am, what I'm doing, and how I got to this place.
I couldn’t have asked for a better host for this episode! My best friend, Rachel Mina, is here to ask me all the questions! We've been friends since high school, which you'll hear in our conversation. Apart from my husband, Rachel knows me better than anyone. This episode means a lot to me because I’ve written about my experiences, but this is my first time sharing them out loud, using my voice. I hope you enjoy the show!
In this episode, we cover:
Kira’s childhood and how that impacts the work she does as an inclusion consultant
How Kira transitioned from gymnastics to theater and dance
The productions Kira and Rachel did together in high school
Why Kira loves theater and the arts so much
The various parts of theater Kira participated in
The role relationships have played in Kira’s theater experience
When Kira knew it was time to go all-in on being an inclusion consultant
What Kira does to keep herself in a space that’s good for her mental health
Why Kira will say no to certain projects
The things Kira is excited about in 2024
I would love to know if some part of my story resonates with you. Don’t be a stranger—come say hi on Instagram!
More about Kira Troilo
Kira Troilo (she/her) is a Boston-based creative, and the CEO and founder of Art & Soul Consulting, and the creator and founder of Inclusive Stages®. A BFA graduate from Emerson College, Kira also holds an HR Essentials certificate from eCornell and is set to be a member of the 2024 ACOM cohort through American Repertory Theatre at Harvard University. She was also recently awarded the distinguished Community Impact Award for SpeakEasy Stage Company’s 2024 gala. Kira’s groundbreaking EDI work was recently featured in American Theatre Magazine. Kira’s consulting work for dozens of organizations has taken her both nationally and internationally. In the summer of 2023, she provided tailored support for the world premiere of "Summer Stock: The Musical" at Goodspeed Opera House, starring Corbin Bleu. In the winter of 2024, she provided tailored support for Something Rotten! at Stratford Festival in Canada.
More about Rachel Mina
Rachel Mina is a curator of experiences. Whether it’s sharing a video on TikTok, hosting an event, or styling a client for a special occasion—she works to create spaces for learning, community, and inspiration. She has over 12 years of experience working with luxury and contemporary fashion brands as a personal stylist and brand ambassador. She’s worked for brands including Saks Fifth Avenue, Helmut Lang, and Barneys New York. Her work has always centered around cultivating relationships, and she is currently creating a space for herself online within the intersection of fashion, branding, and community building.
Links & Mentioned Resources
Connect with Rachel:
Connect with Kira:
Thanks for joining me on this episode of Inclusive Stages! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help me reach even more theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone.
Thanks to our music composer, Zachary McConnell, and our producer, Leah Bryant.
More about the Inclusive Stages Podcast
Welcome to 'Inclusive Stages' -- the go-to weekly podcast for theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone. We'll chat with actors, directors, designers, scholars, and more about the current landscape of the theater scene and get their thoughts on how we can do better.
Host Kira Troilo will also give you a sneak peek into live EDI coaching sessions and offer actionable tips for creating more equitable, inclusive, and empathetic theater spaces that support and value the diversity of artists and audiences. Join the conversation, and let's collectively shape the future of care-forward creative spaces, one stage at a time.
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Inclusive Stages podcast follows
Kira Troilo (00:02.029)
Hi Rachel!
Rachel Mina (00:03.184)
Hi. Oh my god, this is so exciting.
Kira Troilo (00:07.061)
How are you?
Rachel Mina (00:08.188)
I'm good. I'm so good. I'm really, really good. How are you feeling?
Kira Troilo (00:12.927)
I'm good. I'm like just super excited and also nervous you know like I feel like I've shared I've shared a lot of my story in writing but I haven't talked about it um really so yeah I mean I can't think of obviously anyone that I'd rather have deep conversations with than you so I know I'm in good hands and I'm just excited to have you here.
Rachel Mina (00:20.333)
I know.
Rachel Mina (00:38.852)
Me too. Thank you so much for asking me to do this. And it's just an honor to be here with you because I just love you so much. And I'm so excited to help your listeners kind of get to know you a little bit better. So I love you. Yay.
Kira Troilo (00:50.23)
I love you. Hi! I have to, so this is the first episode, which is, oh my God, yep. I wanted to start off by asking you the question that I ask every guest, that I'm gonna ask every guest, because you do have one, even though you're not technically a theater person, but you are a theater lover, obviously. So what is your theater origin story?
Rachel Mina (00:57.344)
Oh my god. Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (01:11.17)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (01:18.692)
I am a theater lover. I feel like whenever I go to a show where I talk about theater, I just smile so big and it just makes me so happy. So I think that probably started, I don't know if it's theater, I danced a lot when I was younger. So I did like the Nutcracker and I always was like loving being around like the production of that. So I think seeing the Nutcracker was probably my first like origin into it, but.
really in high school was when I started thinking, oh, this is so cool, I wanna be involved. And I think it was guys and dolls. I think that was my first, cause that's when we met and I think that was my first kind of intro into the theater world. And it just went from there. Then I saw Wicked and I was like, oh my gosh, I love this. Yeah. Yes, but I love it. I actually stopped dance, not stopped, but I danced.
Kira Troilo (02:07.586)
Yes, and then I just kept dragging you with me everywhere to the theater after that.
Rachel Mina (02:16.416)
I kind of stopped dancing so much so I could do theater and then I would like try to do dance roles in theaters like in high school so I just loved it. And I love going to shows with you. I love that it's like you're keeping me in the community because I'm not really in it anymore but it's just so nice to be able to be with you and like kind of get the inside scoop.
Kira Troilo (02:39.042)
Yay, well you're my favorite theater date, so you are a part of this community.
Rachel Mina (02:40.972)
Yes, I love our date. Thank you.
Kira Troilo (02:45.442)
amazing. So yeah, I'm gonna do something really uncomfortable and just hand it over to you. I'm really here to be a guest. It's just yeah, it's really important to me that as if I'm gonna talk on something that people know who I am and why I'm talking on it. So yeah, like I said, no one better than my best friend who's known me since I was in high school. Yeah, so I'm just gonna hand it on over.
Rachel Mina (02:50.438)
I know.
Rachel Mina (03:12.224)
Okay, well I don't take this lightly. I'm so honored to be doing this with you. So I hope I can do it. I can do a good job, but it'll be so exciting for me to just do this. So I think let's start, like let's go all the way back and just kind of start with your childhood if you can just give us a little bit of like, how did you grow up and kind of let's just start there.
Kira Troilo (03:36.138)
Yeah, yeah, my childhood was very unique, I would say. I grew up with a white mom, red hair, freckles, and a dad who's...
you know, very dark-skinned black guy. They were not together. I had siblings on my mom's side who are much older. So my life started a little bit tumultuous, just, you know, kind of going back and forth. And I don't have a ton of memories from that time because when I was, I think, three, my mother was diagnosed with lung cancer.
So she, you know, for the last few years of her life was struggling with surgeries and, you know, just struggling to get treatment and all of that. And she passed away when I was six. So I moved in with my dad and his new girlfriend at the time, whose name is Francis. And yeah, the two of them got married eventually and we became a little family unit.
My stepmom, Frances, she's now like my other best friend. But yeah, that was, she's also black, so.
Rachel Mina (04:58.532)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (05:02.838)
You know, I like to say that I grew up in a black household as a mixed kid in a white community, because as you know, we both grew up in Trusbury, Massachusetts. Shout out. I think I was one of three kids who were black in our high school class, or our class going through.
Rachel Mina (05:14.964)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (05:28.602)
Yeah, so I've kind of, you know, from childhood I've always kind of lived in the middle. And that's become something that's, you know, I've identified as really important about the work I do. As I'm someone who has kind of lived in the middle racially, lived in the middle of my family, of two different sides of my family that weren't actually connected by anything except for me.
Uh, yeah, so that's kind of the early childhood story of me.
Rachel Mina (06:00.408)
Yeah, I feel like I'm gonna learn a lot too, just even speaking to you in this way, because yeah, it's just, it's different when you're actually talking about it, and explaining your story, and yeah. But like.
Kira Troilo (06:12.958)
Yeah, right, which is funny because I feel like we talk about all these things all the time, but yeah, we never, you never like sit down with your best friend and say like, let's go back to the origin.
Rachel Mina (06:17.754)
i know, it is
Rachel Mina (06:22.004)
Exactly. Yeah, because even like, we'll get to that later, I guess, but we met kind of later. But before, like in high school, I, you did gymnastics, but it wasn't just in high school, right? It was, how long ago, when did you start that? Because I feel like that was a big part of your life and that must have shaped you a lot. So talk to us about kind of what led you to gymnastics and kind of what that meant to you, because I know it was a big part of your life.
Kira Troilo (06:41.207)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (06:52.138)
Yeah, no, it really was. Yeah, so my babysitter, I had a lot of sitters that, like a lot of surrogate moms in my childhood because both of my parents, my dad and my stepmom, both worked. So I went with a babysitter.
Rachel Mina (07:02.384)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (07:10.742)
to her daughter's gymnastics class. I remember I was just sitting there and the coach invited me, like, hey, do you wanna come play? Cause I'm just this random kid not signed up in gymnastics.
and I went on the floor and apparently I had some talent because the coach then talked to my dad and said, this little girl really needs to be in gymnastics. Because I was nine at the time and that's pretty late for gymnasts. Like a lot of gymnasts start three, they're really in there early. So yeah, it was kind of one of those things, like I feel like a lot of things in my life, maybe everything in my life, I've stumbled on a talent, I didn't realize I had.
Rachel Mina (07:42.31)
Okay.
Kira Troilo (07:54.384)
And yeah, I just worked really quickly up through, you know, I did gymnastics for fun, but then I was on the team. I joined, I was part of the, I'm going to forget the name of the, of AAU, the AAU League.
Rachel Mina (08:09.78)
Okay.
Kira Troilo (08:12.302)
And yeah, then I eventually was on the high school gymnastics team. I was the captain my senior year. I was the MVP of the league. It was very, I mean, it was everything for me. And it was actually kind of a point of contention because my dad really wanted me to go to college for gymnastics or use, you know, use gymnastics as a way to kind of advance my education and, you know, get in somewhere great. And I, at that time,
Rachel Mina (08:15.696)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (08:33.171)
Oh.
Kira Troilo (08:42.236)
point, we'll go back, but I had fallen in love with theater at that point and I had other things and gymnastics is just a very demanding sport.
Rachel Mina (08:45.325)
Yeah.
Rachel Mina (08:52.164)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (08:53.09)
both mentally and physically. And again, I think I learned a lot of that, just push forward, just get through it. It hurts, but just do it. That mindset really, I owe a lot to what I learned from gymnastics, but it also was something that kind of pervaded in my life. And then of course getting into theater and the show must go on. So really, I've always just been a very high performer.
Rachel Mina (09:05.113)
Yeah.
Rachel Mina (09:23.042)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (09:23.99)
and like in pressured environments.
Rachel Mina (09:26.988)
And it might have started there, do you think? It's like, yeah, that's so interesting.
Kira Troilo (09:30.242)
Yeah, yeah, I mean it was something that people were really proud of me for. And I was proud of myself too, you know, it was obviously I worked really hard.
Rachel Mina (09:35.521)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (09:40.684)
Yeah, you were amazing. Like, let's not, don't let anyone think you weren't like, she was amazing. Like, wow. So, yeah.
Kira Troilo (09:47.618)
Thank you. No, oh God. I mean, yeah, it's, I mean, the cool thing about, like, I got to go into theater with acrobatic skills. So that was cool. You know, like up until, yeah, I mean, I'm almost, oh, I would.
Rachel Mina (09:56.58)
That's right, yes.
Kira Troilo (10:01.518)
almost 40, so like I'm not, you know, on stage flipping as much. But like, yeah, even in my early 30s, like before I had my kid, I was still doing flips on stage. So it's been a skill that I've carried on. Yeah, it's so cool. And it's not, I mean, for now, like, kids going through college now for theater, it's like an actual skill. Like, people learn acrobatics or, you know, like aerial stuff. But, um.
Rachel Mina (10:06.029)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (10:13.444)
I forgot about that.
Kira Troilo (10:29.186)
Yeah, no, I loved it and kind of transitioned from gymnastics where I really love the floor and the beam the best because I am also like a dancer. And again, like how you and I met and just kind of transitioned those skills to more of the dance and theater world.
Rachel Mina (10:37.753)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (10:43.405)
Right.
Rachel Mina (10:49.92)
Yeah, so let's, I guess we can talk about how we met, because I think that goes pretty nicely, because it was kind of the same thing with gymnastics. You had to sort of let that aside a little bit to be more involved in theater, right? You couldn't really do both, or, were you doing both at one point, or no?
Kira Troilo (11:07.91)
Exactly. I definitely was. I mean there was a point I think junior year of high school where I was like waking up at five going to the gym like the gym to workout doing school then going to gymnastics from like three to five thirty for the high school team then going to musical from like six to nine and going home doing homework and then doing it all over again so I definitely did um
Rachel Mina (11:11.529)
Okay.
Rachel Mina (11:18.564)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (11:32.633)
Right.
Kira Troilo (11:35.886)
I did all of it through high school. I was actively involved in theater and gymnastics the entire time. Yeah, I won like MVP that senior year. Like that was...
Rachel Mina (11:38.828)
Hello, you did.
Oh, see, I'm learning clearly. I didn't realize that. Wow. For some reason, I don't know why. Oh my goodness. All the time just like blurs together. So can we just think about that schedule that is just bananas, that schedule. But you did that for so long. And not only did you do it, you were like the best at it. And also in theater, like, it's not like you were just like a backup singer. Like you were the lead in a lot of things. So.
Kira Troilo (11:54.152)
I know.
Kira Troilo (11:59.594)
Yeah!
Rachel Mina (12:11.428)
That just, that takes a toll, I'm sure. But like, it doesn't catch up to you until later. But anyway, let's talk about when we first met because I feel like we're getting to like the junior, senior year. And I think that's when we met, which was junior year, I think, of high school.
Kira Troilo (12:16.63)
Yeah. Okay.
Kira Troilo (12:25.574)
Yeah, I mean we met in Guys and Dolls, but I think we became friends junior year for sure. Like yeah.
Rachel Mina (12:29.696)
Yeah. And was guys and dolls during the summer or was that during the school year? I don't remember.
Kira Troilo (12:37.728)
No, that was our like spring musical when we were sophomores.
Rachel Mina (12:39.264)
Okay, spring, okay. So I was like trying to think of all the shows. Yeah, I was trying to think of all the shows we've done together. And I think it's a lot, but I know definitely Guys and Dolls, Brigadoon, right?
Kira Troilo (12:50.002)
Mm-hmm. Oh, okay, so yeah, Brigadoon was freshman year, so we did Brigadoon first, but I guess we didn't really cross paths until Guys and Dolls. Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (12:55.885)
Oh.
Rachel Mina (12:59.36)
Okay, okay. And then Children of Eden and Jekyll and Hyde, I think were the other big ones. Yeah. But yeah, so we met and kind of became friends because we were both cast as the Havana dancers, right? Is that what they're called now? Yes, you guys are dolls. Yes.
Kira Troilo (13:05.262)
That's right. Mm-hm.
Kira Troilo (13:15.866)
Yes. Yes, and you and I were laughing offline the other day because I was thinking back to like, huh, I wonder why we got cast as the Cuban dancers. No. No, I didn't think about it at the time. But yeah, we were featured dancers. We were in the hot box and we were those dancers.
Rachel Mina (13:27.54)
Yes, I know. I didn't even think about that until the other day. Like, wow. I mean, this is a long time ago, but yeah.
Rachel Mina (13:39.9)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (13:41.966)
And yeah, I mean, just we were able to like connect over the dance there. And just like when you're in high school too, like our shows were like 80 kids, you know? So to connect with someone, like you have to be in a like a special, like in a part that connects with someone or in a small group. So yeah, there were like three of us dancers.
Rachel Mina (13:48.441)
Yeah.
Rachel Mina (13:53.56)
Right. Yeah.
Rachel Mina (14:05.08)
Right, and then, because we spent a lot of time together, and also we were in chorus and acapella together. So I think we had some, we had that together, and then we had all this extra time to connect, I guess, and dance, and yeah, I think that's when we really started, we probably started hanging out after school and things like that at that point too, I would think.
Kira Troilo (14:29.472)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's what I remember. Although I don't know when I had after school time, but we definitely did.
Rachel Mina (14:33.516)
Right. Oh my gosh. But yeah, since I feel like since we've met, theater has always been a huge part of your life. And it's been amazing to see how you've been able to continue to keep it a priority, like even, you know, in college and after, and like, what is it about theater that makes you like draws you back and makes you want to continue to make it a priority? Cause it wasn't like a nice to have, like you made sure that you were able to.
Kira Troilo (14:41.857)
Yeah.
Rachel Mina (15:03.008)
either whether it was performing or choreographing like throughout your whole life pretty much. So what is it about theater that you love so much or that keeps you coming back?
Kira Troilo (15:08.396)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (15:14.078)
Yeah, such a great question. And I feel like, I always say this, but I think theater chased me in a lot of ways. After high school, I really, I didn't wanna go for gymnastics. I was really afraid. I'd been one of those rare gymnasts who never broke a bone.
You know, I had many injuries, but I had gotten out mostly on skates, and I really didn't want to put my body through that kind of intense pressure in college. Like, I wanted to have a really great college experience. I also didn't want to go to college for theater because I thought...
I mean, I think I was, you know, a little bit of imposter syndrome of like, oh, well, I'm not that good. You know, like I'm not going to do that with my life. So another skill that I have that I've always loved is writing. You know, I wrote a poem when I was like six years old that won a poetry contest. And I was like, so I was always writing. I mean, I've gone back recently and read like I've journals and journals from when I was a kid, the poems and all that. So I went to school for.
writing literature and publishing. I ended up minoring in dance. So I was at Emerson College, my alma mater, right down the street from you. I did, yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah, just.
Rachel Mina (16:30.533)
Mm-hmm.
which you spoke at, didn't you speak at yesterday? How crazy, that's so amazing.
Kira Troilo (16:40.822)
So wild. Again, like the last thing I thought I would do was go back to my alma mater to talk about being an entrepreneur. Like, that was so far from my mind at the time. I thought I was going to be a writer and do theatre for fun. Because, like you said, like I never dropped theatre. I just thought, you know, I'm not going to move to New York and pound the pavement and go to audition after audition. Like, I'm going to just, you know, I'm going to do it. I'm going to keep it in my life. And I was dating, at the time I was dating my current husband.
Rachel Mina (16:40.865)
Wow. Yeah.
Rachel Mina (16:45.987)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (17:10.063)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (17:10.29)
who is also an actor and went to school for musical theater. And to me, like, he was the quote, real actor. You know, like he was, he was, he was doing it. He was like the star. And yeah, so I kind of, you know, I started doing theater in college a little bit. People just kind of assumed I was a major at times. I started choreographing at our old high school. That was a skill that I didn't realize that I had either was like,
Oh, I think I'm, you know, I can dance and all of that. Like I'm actually, I think I'm good at creating stories with bodies on stage. So, you know, I just kind of started doing all of that. And then I started, you know, there were regional theaters doing productions. Like there was a production of rent that came up. Like there were things that came up in the area that I was like, ooh, I'm just gonna go in for that.
So yeah, I did not go to college for it. And that I think was, you know, in part due to imposter syndrome. And then, you know, afterward kind of like, well, I'm just doing it for fun. And then, you know, as I kept going, I ended up doing professional theater and I'm sure we'll get there, but like I ended up taking my equity card and like ended up starring opposite my husband in a show, you know, a couple of years back. So yeah, it just followed me. And I think
You know, I love the community of theater. I love the friendships I've made through theater. I love how we can be vulnerable and tell stories and access different, you know, even as a choreographer, access different kind of moods or...
themes with our bodies or, you know, like through your voice you can express things that you can't just like say in normal conversation. So it was really just like a, you know, a big means of expression that's been really important to me.
Rachel Mina (19:04.514)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (19:09.74)
Yeah, it's so interesting to hear you talk about it because it makes so much sense what you're doing now. But like at the time, I don't think that you knew. It was just like, if you're looking back now, are there any moments that you did have that was like a glimpse of like, oh, I could maybe do this or make a difference or like even just do theater as more than just a side thing. Like, are there moments that stand out to you?
that are like, oh, I'm going to be in this world and make a difference.
Kira Troilo (19:44.446)
Yeah, I think there were definitely, there were moments, but what I do now didn't exist. So I think there were always moments of, there's something there, but I don't know what it is. Like I know right around, I think it was 2020, when I went to like an outdoor restaurant for the first time with Jared, my husband, and...
Rachel Mina (19:53.443)
Right.
Rachel Mina (20:08.528)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (20:11.154)
I was just talking about being really unhappy because I knew I wasn't doing what I wanted to be doing with my life, but I didn't know what that was either, like what I was supposed to be doing. So at that time I was like, well maybe I do need to throw myself fully into theater. Maybe I do need to like be an actor and just like...
Rachel Mina (20:30.127)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (20:31.03)
do that because I had been, you know at that point I had decided okay I'm gonna do professional theater, I'm going to audition for shows that like you know no actor in Boston really like makes a living doing shows but close more you know like actual weekly pay and all of that but um yeah it didn't feel quite right but I you know
Rachel Mina (20:47.312)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (20:55.102)
I didn't have the language or the roadmap for what it was. It wasn't really until I started kind of digging into my past through a blog I started writing around the pandemic that I noticed those things you're talking about, like.
Oh hey, I worked on this production where I was the only person of color on a creative team and I ended up really like advocating for the people of color in the production and being the liaison and handling conflict and consulting, you know, on what should we do in this case, you know?
I had been brought on as like an assistant on some shows to kind of talk about being mixed race and with a team of mostly white people. And, you know, there were so many things I could point to that I had done where I had been a consultant, but I didn't know that that's what it was. And it certainly like didn't.
Rachel Mina (21:54.413)
Right.
Kira Troilo (22:00.47)
feel like equity, diversity, and inclusion work, because as I understood that, that was more kind of corporate and organizational. But in the shows I was doing, things kept coming up all the time, and more often than not, I ended up as someone who was solving or helping to solve the problems that were there.
Rachel Mina (22:06.544)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (22:13.914)
Right.
Rachel Mina (22:20.556)
Right, because there's not, like you said, it doesn't, it didn't exist before. So like you would just be on a show or working or choreographing and something could happen. And there is no support really, right? Like, I don't know if there's any moments that stand out to you as like, not necessarily that, oh, I'm going to do this work, but like someone needs to, this is not right or someone needs to, I don't, I don't feel supported. And probably this person doesn't feel supported because you're just
Kira Troilo (22:24.696)
Mm-mm.
Kira Troilo (22:34.445)
Right.
Rachel Mina (22:50.508)
such a giving and kind person anyways, that you just have this gift to be able to listen to people and calmly help them through something. And obviously that helps you in your work today, but I don't know if there was a time when you were on a show and something happened that you were like, oh, this is crazy that this doesn't exist yet. And I think that's sort of how, we can talk about how you started your actual business, but I didn't know if there was any.
moments that you look back on and you're like, wow, how is this not a thing yet?
Kira Troilo (23:27.691)
Yes, so many and I will always be general because I never like to say anything specifically negative about anyone publicly. But there is one that stands out that was a bit earlier, like in the mid-2010s.
Rachel Mina (23:32.528)
Of course, yeah.
Rachel Mina (23:45.039)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (23:46.906)
So I was part of a show where it was a mixed cast. So there was kind of like a mostly white group of people and a mostly black group of people. And I remember we were getting our hair done at tech. We were like hair and makeup. And this is just like figuring out, okay, how are we gonna style our hair? What does each scene look like? And I remember...
Me and one other actor went over to the hair person and we asked, you know, like, what do you want us to do with our hair? And the response from that person was, oh, I don't do black hair. And we had, I think, at least six black people in the show. I was obviously angry, but in true, like, you know me, in true Kiara fashion, I went to my station and I started doing my hair.
Rachel Mina (24:37.241)
I'll do it.
Kira Troilo (24:40.27)
I'm just like, great, I'll just style my own hair. But there was another actor who was really upset, as rightfully so, because how are you gonna bring in a hair person who says I can't do half of the hair in the show and like automatically draw like a big racial divide among the support the cast has? So yeah, I remember even then, like I was trying to talk this actor down. I was trying to mediate on the side of...
Rachel Mina (24:43.17)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (25:09.158)
of the black folks who were like, you know, we need some support, we're not getting here. And then I talked to the leader and I tried to explain to the leader calmly because the leader had gotten an earful from this actor who was ready to quit. So even then, you know, I was kind of trying to mediate the situ, yeah, mediate the situation to the point, cause the director.
Rachel Mina (25:23.034)
Mm-hmm.
Wow, that's 10 years ago.
Kira Troilo (25:32.99)
or the leader didn't really understand, like truly didn't get what the problem was and why we couldn't just quote unquote do our own hair. So I was already seeing that there's just a lack of knowledge and understanding, obviously an injustice going on, but like how are we gonna solve this without everyone walking away from the project? So that's like the earliest that I can point to where I was doing this work without the title or the pay.
Rachel Mina (25:35.478)
Hmm.
Rachel Mina (25:46.212)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (25:53.368)
Right.
Rachel Mina (26:00.568)
Right, right, or the pay or the support. Oh my gosh. And now you have your own business, which how is it, has it been two years yet? Or how long has it been? Coming up on it, yeah.
Kira Troilo (26:03.469)
Right. Important. Uh-huh.
Kira Troilo (26:12.814)
Coming on it. Yeah, I mean, you were the one, I think you were the first one I called that day and you marked it on the calendar. Yeah, so yeah, it was, so July of 22. So we're coming on two years. I started doing the work kind of freelance in 2021. So that's when I did...
Rachel Mina (26:17.964)
Well, yeah, let's talk about that. Yeah. So.
Kira Troilo (26:34.206)
I think like two or three shows as an EDI consultant on them. And it was, you know, realizing like, actually, I think I'm onto something here that doesn't exist but should exist. And that's the feedback I was getting everywhere I went was like, why don't we have someone to deal with conflict and culture and well-being? Like it, once I went in and did the work, it was like...
Oh my god, what have we been doing all this time? So it took a lot for me to get from the point where I was like, I'm gonna just jump in and try something and see if it works to like, I'm gonna start my own company. Um.
Rachel Mina (27:04.784)
Right.
Rachel Mina (27:17.548)
Yeah, let's talk about that because I feel like it's, yeah, it's, it's you were at your day job for like over 10 years, right? Yeah, so. Okay, so let's talk about like those conversations you had with yourself maybe before you decided that you were like going to go full in because that's not an easy. I know that wasn't an easy decision to make, but I think it's important to talk about those like in between moments of like.
Kira Troilo (27:27.314)
Oh yeah, yep, when I left it was 12 years.
Rachel Mina (27:46.744)
when it was really hard at work or it was just draining and it wasn't what you really wanted to do.
Kira Troilo (27:53.302)
Yeah, yeah, I mean it was a job that I was really happy at for a long time. I was the managing editor of an online company. I got to write for this company. It was very focused on saving money and frugal living. And I got the job in 2010. So we were just graduated from college, you know, a couple years ago in a recession. And I got to work from home.
Rachel Mina (27:59.353)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (28:13.904)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (28:20.726)
um hold on one second because i'm getting steppy. sorry leo we'll edit this out it's cold it's just like sticking. we're doing so good it's so good i'm having a great time i hope you are okay all the things i say um and all the yeah it's it is what it is it'll get better um
Rachel Mina (28:22.944)
Oh yeah, you're fine. Heheheheh.
Rachel Mina (28:29.604)
Are we doing okay? Okay.
Rachel Mina (28:39.28)
I'm trying not to like nod so much.
Rachel Mina (28:47.492)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (28:50.058)
Okay, so where was I? Oh yes. Yeah, so I was working from home in 2010. I felt very lucky to have a job where I was writing and...
Rachel Mina (28:52.772)
you were writing for Tip Hero.
Rachel Mina (28:59.949)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (29:05.834)
in a management position and I could bring my laptop to the theater. So it went, it was, I was happy for a long time just like making a living at this job that allowed me the flexibility to do theater as well. So that, you know, from 2010 I'd say to really about 2017-18.
Kira Troilo (29:28.166)
I started trying to have my first kid. And around that time, I remember, was when I stopped being happy at work. And that's for a number of reasons. We had started as this frugal living, saving money company, and we'd been kind of at the whim of social media trends at the time. So it gets all into click bait and not genuine stuff. So I just really value being genuine.
and authenticity and I felt like I wasn't contributing to helping people anymore the way I was when we were doing more like, here's how you can save some money and live better.
Rachel Mina (30:02.8)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (30:09.901)
Right.
Kira Troilo (30:11.802)
But I had a kid on the way eventually. It was a long, hard journey. That's another thing I've written about. We had two losses before we had our Levi, who's just turned six now. But when Levi came, it was very clear that we needed to have a stable job. One of us, my husband being an actor,
Rachel Mina (30:19.394)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (30:37.488)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (30:41.496)
you know, skills and other side jobs as well, but like I had the salaried job. So it really took, you know, the pandemic and all the work that I started doing. And then I think, you know, I don't think he'll mind me telling this story, but I think it took my husband seeing me at work. So I went into a show he was working on and I facilitated a discussion. And he had believed in me before that, you know, he'd always been supportive. But after that, he was
This is what you're supposed to do.
Rachel Mina (31:12.08)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (31:12.778)
Like I remember, I'll never forget walking out of the building and him saying that. Um, and I think from there, we both, once we both were kind of like, this is inevitable because I was lighting up and I, I solved something, you know, that was hard and, um, yeah, that's kind of what it took. And then also my job was, um, not safe. Uh, the numbers were not good. Um, I know that, you know, my, but my old bosses were just wonderful. They are wonderful people. And they kept me around.
Rachel Mina (31:21.729)
Yes.
Rachel Mina (31:25.156)
Right.
Kira Troilo (31:42.832)
long as they possibly could, but I also sensed that there was an ending coming. So as you know, the day that I worked up my courage to give my notice, I got laid off. And it was just like the best gift I could have asked for.
Rachel Mina (31:53.264)
Hmm. Yeah.
Rachel Mina (31:59.296)
I know, I call it her divine day. I like have it in my calendar as Kira's divine day.
Kira Troilo (32:05.646)
Truly a divine day because they spoke first, I got severance. But I had already decided I was leaving, and I had already created the company. I was ready to go. I had a four-month buffer I hadn't even expected. And I think that was divine as the word. It kind of told me right away, this is the right thing. And I just went from there.
Rachel Mina (32:10.181)
Right.
Rachel Mina (32:32.204)
Yeah, and from that day, I feel like it's just been one thing after the other. And it's been amazing to watch because something will happen and then just something else. And it's not just like, I don't know. It's like when you walk into what you're meant for, these opportunities just present themselves. And you've done all this work because you were already doing it and you just kind of took the opportunity and ran with it. And it's just grown.
so much and I think we, well you and I talk about this a lot about like just trusting and like showing up for yourself and like knowing that you've done the preparation and the inner work where you, because you had so much going on, you were doing workshops, you were doing shows, you were consulting like so many things and at some point I'm sure it gets difficult but do you have, talk to us about like your...
non-negotiables or the things that you do for yourself to put yourself in a mind space where you can just show up and know that you're going to be like, it's going to be fine and you've done the work. But that's a hard place to get to, I'm sure. But talk to us about like what you do to keep your to keep yourself in a space that's like mentally good.
Kira Troilo (33:44.674)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (33:52.95)
Yeah, yeah, it's so important in it, like as you know, an ongoing journey that we constantly talk about. Yeah, it has been, I would say, like none of this business stuff could have happened without the therapy work. You know, the therapy work I was doing all along and the inner work and the personal growth and...
Rachel Mina (33:58.35)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (34:21.278)
you know, just digging into all that childhood stuff of like, what is this backpack of trauma that I've been carrying? And, you know, a lot of the skills that I carried forth came from a place of trauma. And how do I, you know, harness those and use those as a power to help other people and also not crumble myself? So it's been a very...
Rachel Mina (34:43.512)
Right.
Kira Troilo (34:47.798)
You know, I've gotten really clear on my values, which has helped. And you and I talk about this a lot. But yeah, and we're so aligned with those. But for me, there were three that kind of rose up that have helped guide the way toward what are the things that I'm meant for, where should I be helping, and what actually is draining me more.
Rachel Mina (34:53.549)
Yeah.
Rachel Mina (34:57.645)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (35:12.688)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (35:14.046)
And then by draining me, I can't do the work that I want to be doing. I've realized I've become a leader in this space without meaning to. I keep saying, I'm like the accidental entrepreneur, because I just started doing the work and then realizing, oh wait, this is needed. And I started it unintentionally. So yeah, oh, I just got way off.
Rachel Mina (35:22.671)
Right.
Rachel Mina (35:30.298)
Yes.
Rachel Mina (35:37.332)
Oh, it's OK. No, you're talking about your values and how like, yeah.
Kira Troilo (35:39.806)
Oh, thank you. Yeah, so I came up, I came with basically three that guide me and it's wholeheartedness, growth and compassion. And I think the compassion came last and I added that because I really needed to put.
the compassion toward myself first. That's something that I've struggled with my whole life. But the work I'm doing is very emotional and tricky and requires a lot of me and I love it. And I'm no good to anyone if I'm not taking care of myself. So as I look at jobs, I look at theaters and organizations who they really wanna do the work of inclusion
And not just putting up mission statements and then forgetting about them, but really digging into how can we make this place both more diverse and then systematically better for all those people we're letting into our environment. Not just...
Kira Troilo (36:53.718)
saying you can open the doors and hey, you can come on in, but saying hey, we're gonna look at the system we have in here and change it so that it doesn't just serve one group of people so that it serves everybody.
Rachel Mina (37:03.716)
Right. Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (37:09.222)
So if I feel, I've really started to distrust my gut. Like if I feel with my whole heart that a company cares, even if they're not doing everything right, because none of us is doing everything right, then I go in and help. And I always look at every job I have as an opportunity for me to grow, because I learned something from every organization, from every show that I work on, that I then carry forward. So really those values of like,
Rachel Mina (37:32.729)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (37:37.165)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (37:39.176)
whole heart if I have an opportunity to grow and hopefully it will help the growth of the place I'm in too and then can I show compassion for myself. I've unfortunately had jobs already where the values have made it very clear that this is not a place for me, that I can't grow, that I don't believe with my whole heart that people care to take those brave steps to change and most of all don't
Rachel Mina (37:57.497)
Right.
Kira Troilo (38:09.557)
you know, both for people involved and myself. So, yeah, I've been taking that very seriously.
Rachel Mina (38:16.42)
Yeah. Do you think you've always had that, like a strong sense of, like, you said like you're trusting your gut or your intuition. Have you always had that or has it been something that you've grown over the last few years?
Kira Troilo (38:34.69)
Definitely grown. I feel, you know, like, that's an interesting question because I feel like maybe I always had it, but I've always suppressed it. I have always been someone who polls, like, well, what do you think? Well, what do you think? I have a very strong father who has best strong opinions and I grew up, you know, like, oh, dad must know better, you know.
Rachel Mina (38:56.898)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (38:59.15)
or there were just louder voices or people in my mind even going back like people are like oh that's someone being a real actor oh that's someone who's a real writer um yeah so i know it's just kind of default to other people so it's taken a ton of work and i'm still working to let that voice inside me be loud
Rachel Mina (39:08.695)
Right.
Rachel Mina (39:20.698)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (39:21.01)
and to really trust it because there have been so many times, especially in, you know, just in the last 10 years or so I'd say where I had a feeling that I pushed through. And it's never good. Never good. So.
Rachel Mina (39:35.028)
Yeah. We all know that feeling. Yes.
Kira Troilo (39:39.998)
Yes, we do. It's so universal. But yeah, I'm just really starting to trust that gut feeling of, I don't have to explain why this is a no for me. I feel it and that's enough. That is enough.
Rachel Mina (39:55.981)
Yes. Love that. I've been listening so much lately about intuition. Obviously I listen to a lot of podcasts and stuff, but it just feels it's such a hard thing to... Sometimes it's hard for me at least to cultivate it, but I think once you start listening it gets louder and then it just becomes you're secure and safe in yourself and you can listen to that voice.
Kira Troilo (40:12.558)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (40:22.572)
and make decisions based off of that. So, yeah.
Kira Troilo (40:25.658)
100% and that's why like that none of this, you know, building a business or any of this work is possible to me without like learning how to hear yourself hearing that gut instinct and right the intuition and You know just like that moral compass and that even just the sense of like yes, I
Rachel Mina (40:36.612)
Yes.
Rachel Mina (40:44.472)
Right.
Kira Troilo (40:49.338)
I have enough to say to start a podcast. You know, like that was huge for me to say, okay, I'm gonna just trust. You know, I have evidence that people are interested in what I have to say, so I'm going to just trust that it's the right thing to do and do it.
Rachel Mina (40:51.724)
Yeah, exactly. I know.
Rachel Mina (41:03.607)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Mina (41:07.576)
Yes, I'm so proud of you. This is so exciting. Yeah. What? Oh, well, that's, you could, but thank you. What are you excited about? Like for this year? I feel like there's so much coming up, but what are you excited about?
Kira Troilo (41:10.146)
Thank you. I mean, I couldn't do it without you. And you know that, like just, yeah.
Kira Troilo (41:27.38)
Yeah, I mean this, obviously. So you know.
I have Art and Soul Consulting, which is my business that I started in 2022, and that will always be my little, you know, I'm calling it like my boutique consulting agency. It's a team, you know, we actually have a little team now, which is nice. And you know, we do that organizational work that's really important. So coaching of arts organizations and audits and show work and workshops for organizations.
Rachel Mina (41:47.749)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (42:04.909)
And so I'm of course always excited about that, but the most exciting thing is this Inclusive Stages launch that's this year. And that is really born of the show, the show work that I do. And I'm going to talk more in a solo episode about like what the work is, but it became clear to me in the, you know, having compassion for myself and the growth that I can't just have.
Rachel Mina (42:23.193)
Yeah.
Rachel Mina (42:32.592)
Can you hear that? Sorry. Oh, good.
Kira Troilo (42:33.988)
Yeah, I can't, I'll wait. It's the first time.
Kira Troilo (42:40.574)
It became clear to me that I can't just do this work by myself. And my big goal, my big growth goal is that every theater space, every commercial space, TV set, film set, has someone there in charge of well-being and the culture of the environment. And that is the key thing that I realized. It can't just be me running in and doing every show I can, which I've been, you know, I've been internationally already.
doing this work. So that led to realizing I need to make this work a framework and then I need to standardize it. So the most exciting thing for me is this Inclusive Stages launch which is like my I've been working on it for you know almost a year. It's a framework for the work I do within shows. So the three prongs of that are this podcast to start talking about it and you know hearing from people and spreading the word. And then it's also a red
Registry, sorry, it's also a cohort registration program. Sorry, I'm gonna say that again. It's also a cohort certification program where I can start to teach.
Rachel Mina (43:46.456)
No, you're fine.
Kira Troilo (43:52.202)
people how to do what I do and get them certified in the framework so that people can, you know, they don't work for me, I'm just going to share with them my, you know, six-step framework for how to go forth and do this work on their own and create their own careers. And then the, yeah, and the third prong is this big membership subscription-based service that I'm working on where theater leaders and, you know, people who want to make a difference can have a kind of hub.
Rachel Mina (44:09.569)
amazing.
Kira Troilo (44:22.476)
for resources for this work, for webinars and events, for a community where you can ask tough questions, because social media is not a great place for asking curious questions, and that is just so key to this work, is being open and compassionate and curious, and like how can we all work together and learn more to make the culture of this industry better. So those are the three big
Rachel Mina (44:51.394)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (44:52.016)
work things I'm excited about. And there's just a lot, yeah. There's a lot to be excited about in life too. Just, I'm really happy. I'm just, I'm in a, yeah, I'm in a really happy place because I feel like I'm just doing what I'm supposed to be doing and that's a good feeling.
Rachel Mina (44:54.336)
Yes, so exciting. I'm... Yeah.
Rachel Mina (45:02.255)
Yeah.
Rachel Mina (45:09.92)
Yeah, and it's just, I'm just so proud of you. And it's just been such a joy as your friend to see it unfold like from a different perspective. And yes, I've been there, like when you, you know, something happens and you'll tell me, but like just watching you grow and watching this business grow and you step into this amazing purpose has just given me a lot of inspiration because.
you just have created something from, like you created it. It didn't exist before and now you're building something. And for me, it's just such an inspiration because when it's like, I have hard days or, you know, I'm trying to do something, I can look at you and just like see like it's possible. And yeah, it just is really amazing to watch and it's just.
It can, you can do it. Like you're literally doing it. So it's just amazing to watch that. And just like, especially like as someone who loves you so much is just so incredible to see. And I'm just so happy for you and so proud of you.
Kira Troilo (46:13.016)
No.
Kira Troilo (46:22.634)
you know, that means the absolute world to me. And I mean it when I say I couldn't do it without you because that's another part is just having that support, having, you know, I mean, you're my favorite person to go to like talk it out and have these in-depth conversations and...
You can learn so much about yourself when you invest in really deep friendships and take the time to have these conversations. And you and I have read a lot of books together and listened to a lot of podcasts together and just grown together. And that is so valuable to me that I have you. And I see it all in you as well.
this gives you the podcast bug because you belong on podcasts as well. But thank you so much just for being there for me always and for helping me share a little bit of my story with this new audience.
Rachel Mina (47:12.233)
Yeah.
Rachel Mina (47:25.341)
Of course, I wouldn't be anywhere else.
Kira Troilo (47:29.45)
What, I'm going to ask you the final question, and, you know, just interested. What do you think inclusion looks like?
Rachel Mina (47:31.727)
Okay.
Rachel Mina (47:40.408)
I love that you have these questions that you ask every guest. I wasn't prepared, but I feel like I...
Kira Troilo (47:43.628)
Yes!
Rachel Mina (47:47.904)
I really love that, I don't know, let me think before I speak.
Rachel Mina (48:00.748)
I think inclusion to me is creating, like taking the time to actually listen and connect with the people that, whether it's in a team or like a show or a work environment or something, or even in like a friend group, it's like taking the time to actually listen and connect with each person and figuring out like what's important to them, what's meaningful to them, and creating.
a space where all those things are valued and all those things are respected, which I know is not easy to do, but I think that that's what that inclusion means to me.
Kira Troilo (48:42.966)
Yeah, I couldn't have said it better myself. And I think with the community building and all of that stuff that we love, it sounds a lot, it doesn't surprise me that we connect because it sounds a lot like what you do too. It's just caring for people and creating an environment that works for everyone.
Rachel Mina (48:51.513)
Yeah.
Rachel Mina (48:58.884)
Yeah.
Rachel Mina (49:02.284)
And just, yeah, taking the time to actually listen and not think that, or not only come to a situation from your perspective. Like that's, you know, I only have my perspective, but that doesn't mean I can't be aware of and respect and value someone else's perspective and make it part of this, like co-create this space together that we're, whatever we're creating, whether it's like a show or a team.
Kira Troilo (49:31.278)
That's right. Yay! Well, thank you so much. I hope you'll come back for season two, I think. I just want to have a conversation with you every season that we are, you know, fortunate enough to do this. But I love you so much. Yes! Okay.
Rachel Mina (49:32.015)
Yeah.
Rachel Mina (49:39.554)
I would love it.
Rachel Mina (49:46.924)
Oh my gosh, absolutely. I love you too. Thank you.