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Inclusion isn’t just important to what we see on stage at a show. It’s equally as critical in places like the pit where you’ll find musicians, vocal performers, and the music director. Music directors in particular tend to be with production processes the longest, which means they understand and have a unique position of influence within a show.
Joining me today is a music director and musician I’ve been fortunate enough to work with a few times, Dan Rodriguez! Dan shares how being a music director has enabled him to help advocate on behalf of performers as well as give performers the confidence to self-advocate. We discuss Dan’s journey into theater, the importance of trust between performers and music directors, vocal health, and how Dan supports transgender actors. We dive deep into several aspects of inclusion in the arts in this conversation! Enjoy the show.
In this episode, we cover:
Innovative experiences Dan’s been a part of in Boston
How his experiences on stage have impacted his work off-stage
What it’s like for Dan to be a music director and performer for the same show
The value of having at least some spotlight on musicians during a show
A deep dive into the various places you’ll find musicians in a theater performance
Why trust is critical between performers and music directors
How to gain the confidence to self-advocate in the arts
A few things that make the music director role so unique
Which part of the process Dan plays for (auditions, rehearsals, performances)
What Dan wants performers to keep in mind as they’re auditioning
What has changed around typecasting different voices
How Dan supports transgender actors as a music director
The way Dan works with performers throughout a show—including when they’re sick
The importance of self-advocacy and steps to take to get comfortable with it
Advice Dan has for up-and-coming music directors
Did you gain some new insight into the world of music and theater? It never fails to amaze me all the ways we can collaborate to make the world a better, more loving, and kinder place. I’d love to hear your takeaways—come say hi on social media!
More About Dan Rodriguez
Dan is a music director, pianist, conductor, and teacher in the Boston area. He has worked with just about every professional company in the greater Boston area, and has been honored to receive multiple Eliot Norton awards for his work as a music director.
Links & Mentioned Resources
Related Episodes
Connect with Dan:
Connect with Kira:
Thanks for joining me on this episode of Inclusive Stages! If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help me reach even more theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone.
Thanks to our music composer, Zachary McConnell, and our producer, Leah Bryant.
More about the Inclusive Stages Podcast
Welcome to 'Inclusive Stages' -- the go-to weekly podcast for theater makers, theater artists, and theater lovers who want to make our industry a better place for everyone. We'll chat with actors, directors, designers, scholars, and more about the current landscape of the theater scene and get their thoughts on how we can do better.
Host Kira Troilo will also give you a sneak peek into live EDI coaching sessions and offer actionable tips for creating more equitable, inclusive, and empathetic theater spaces that support and value the diversity of artists and audiences. Join the conversation, and let's collectively shape the future of human-first theater, one stage at a time.
This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you.
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Inclusive Stages podcast follows:
Kira Troilo (00:10.534)
Hi Dan. How are you doing?
Dan Rodriguez (00:12.056)
Hello. I'm doing well, how are you?
Kira Troilo (00:16.294)
I'm good, I'm excited to finally talk to you. Yes, your name has been on the podcast many times. So we're finally getting you actually here.
Dan Rodriguez (00:19.052)
Me too, glad to be here.
Dan Rodriguez (00:28.78)
I very much appreciate all the mentions and very glad to be here.
Kira Troilo (00:32.582)
Yes, well, yay, you are one of my favorite music directors working in the Boston area. I know you've worked in other areas too. But yeah, this is the first time we're talking to anyone in kind of the music director land.
Dan Rodriguez (00:51.03)
I'm glad to be the first one to get it started.
Kira Troilo (00:54.106)
Yes. Okay, so first, I actually, we've been friends for many years, but I don't know the answer to this question, so I'm really excited. What would you consider to be your theater origin story?
Dan Rodriguez (00:58.85)
Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (01:05.634)
That is a great question, and I think theatre has sort of been with me all my life to some degree. Certainly, I mean, I came to it through music, I guess. I've always appreciated music from, you know, early, very early age. I know there's video footage of me out there conducting at like, you know, infancy basically. yeah, I'm sure my mom will provide it. but...
Kira Troilo (01:25.565)
Okay, we're gonna need that. Okay, great.
Dan Rodriguez (01:33.58)
But yeah, so I was always grew up listening to musicals and I will say for me, even like Andrew Lloyd Webber was a big one early on, like, know, Cats. I have a strong memory of seeing Les Mis, I think was the first one I saw when I was pretty young, actually, the tour through Boston. And so, but it was mostly as a fan, I would say. And then as a pianist, we had a thing called the big Broadway Fakebook, which was just basically
a giant book with tons of Broadway songs in it and I would go through and play that, which is also how I think I got good at sight reading and things like that. that was always those were always some of my favorite things to play. I was actually in shows to some degree in my youth before I moved to the other side of the stage. So I was like in the Sound of Music as a goat and the tiniest Nazi. And so.
That was in seventh grade. yep. But then in high school, I was not necessarily involved in the theater program right away, but I was doing some jazz with the Jazz Ensemble and our, leader of that, Jeff Leonard, who was a great music director in his own right, came to me and said, hey, we need a pianist for the musical. Have you ever thought about doing something like that? And I said, well, yeah, I love doing shows. So I ended up playing in the
Kira Troilo (02:32.03)
Yep, of course.
Dan Rodriguez (03:01.208)
pit and rehearsals for the production was My Favorite Year, which is a show that nobody knows or does, but I very much enjoyed it. Yes. Yes, exactly. But yes, but it's a great fun show, Aaron's and Flaherty, and I had a great time, and then we did Cabaret the next year after that, and Scarlet Pimpernel, and so I was...
Kira Troilo (03:08.936)
There's one song, yes, there's like one song everyone knows from auditions, right? Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (03:28.192)
in the pit for all of those and helped out with the music directing and just really got into that aspect of working on musicals. And then like right after graduating high school, I was able to jump right into playing actually even a little bit in high school, jump right into playing some rehearsals and then working on the shows at the Regal at the time, the Regal Players in Waltham. And so that was my first sort of foray into a more professional theater.
And from there it kind of spread. I went to college. I majored in collaborative piano, is piano accompanying basically, but we call it collaborative piano because it's really a collaboration. And did a lot of vocal coaching there and things like that in the operatic world as well as musical theater. I'll mention I've done both. And even though there wasn't really a musical theater program there, although they just started one this year, they had a
really great student musical theatre organization and so I did a lot of shows there and then they would do a main stage musical every few years so I did Assassins there for the first time and Falsettos and a bunch of other great shows but yeah and it's just been doing it ever since I guess.
Kira Troilo (04:43.721)
Guys.
Kira Troilo (04:48.168)
Just kept going. Yeah. Wow. Did you start piano lessons before the love of theater or where did that happen?
Dan Rodriguez (04:57.966)
would say after, actually. I didn't start playing the piano until I was seven, and it was definitely a self-driven thing. I was like, I want to do this, this is a thing. You know, I, from what I understand, I like messed around, was messing around on a piano at like a friend's house or something like that. And my parents were like, you should do this. And so, exactly. So, but it wasn't a like, you got to start, you know, music early or anything like that. And honestly, I feel like I was always very self-motivated with the...
Kira Troilo (05:16.147)
We should probably do that, yeah. Love that.
Dan Rodriguez (05:27.168)
music and things like that and I was like I'm gonna do this thing and now I'm gonna do that thing and so I've always enjoyed all types of music and all aspects of it so again I always did classical jazz, theater, pop, anything you know it was just all music so and I try to keep that up to some degree so you know even now when I'm you know mostly do musical theater work but you know I've still played in a you know I sat in on a jazz band a few weeks ago and I played a you know
Kira Troilo (05:42.036)
Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (05:55.672)
video game orchestra concert last week so you know it's absolutely
Kira Troilo (05:59.006)
No way. What was that like? That sounds amazing. Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (06:03.502)
It was great. was at the Wang Center. It was this touring show that comes through. So they hire local musicians for the symphony orchestra. Got to be on the big stage with playing a grand piano and everything. It was great.
Kira Troilo (06:20.491)
that. That's amazing. I feel like as I talk to more people on the podcast, everyone to some degree has been on the stage who ends up kind of in a different world of the theater, you know, like whether it be backstage or music directing. Do you think that has anything to do with the way that you are as a music director? Like your experiences being on the stage? Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (06:34.411)
Mhm.
Dan Rodriguez (06:44.414)
Absolutely, I think just knowing what it's like to be there from that perspective really helps. I mean, I don't know many music directors who don't have that experience as well. I think we all come to theatre through a love of theatre, and a lot of times that begins with performing at an early age. And even now, I've been on stage in costume more often than not, to some degree, in the last couple of years, like even as a pianist sometimes.
Kira Troilo (07:09.641)
Yes?
Dan Rodriguez (07:12.686)
Just you get costumed in the bands on stage, but even but last year I was also in a show where I had to play a Character and sing a song and things like that. So that's that does happen
Kira Troilo (07:22.549)
Yes, yeah, I was like, we're gonna get there because one of my, I I've worked with you so many times, I've seen you so many times, I'm one of your biggest fans, but I loved the combination of you being able to music direct and be a character in the show. And that particular experience was one of my favorite, seeing you.
Dan Rodriguez (07:26.318)
Thank you.
Dan Rodriguez (07:42.542)
Mine too, and that was really a synthesis of all the things because it had the classical music elements and so, you know, it was the music of Rachmaninoff. it was something that I'd been playing for years and really loved his music and then to portray his character on stage and then sort of bring that emotionally to life through and having to also be vulnerable in a way that you don't often get to be as a music director is challenging, but also very rewarding.
Kira Troilo (08:12.214)
Yeah, yeah, and you're, I'd say probably one of the few music directors I know who will hear, we've got a costume for you and you're gonna be on stage and you're like, okay. Yeah, I mean, you have colleagues and friends, like, what is that usually like when they say, we're gonna put you on stage in a costume?
Dan Rodriguez (08:20.814)
Yeah, that's true.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I certainly have no people who would be less comfortable with it, but I never mind. I mean, I think it's always good to see live music and make sure you know that it's coming from somewhere. So I mean, I also love the experience of being in a pit as a conductor, I'll say. And that's also something a lot of theaters don't have anymore these days. But just knowing that there's music coming from somewhere is, I think, great. so seeing the music.
be an equal part of the proceedings. And that's very valuable.
Kira Troilo (09:01.333)
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely. I wonder, like, because I'm thinking of audience members who come and watch a show and they see the actors. What's it like, you know, as an orchestra you have together or a pit, you know, the difference between not being seen and then leaving the theater or being seen and leaving the theater?
Dan Rodriguez (09:11.872)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (09:24.374)
It's definitely a different experience, and I'll say I'm also someone who, though I've had a great experience being on stage, and never mind being on stage in costume, I don't love a ton of attention on me as a person, so I'm happy to come in, sort of, just sneak in, who's that person wearing all black, doesn't matter. And then you get into the pit, you can hopefully stand up, maybe you get appreciated as the spotlight is on the conductor.
you play and then you leave and no one really knows who you are anymore but it's also okay because that's fine, you know, you had your moment. And as a pit musician sometimes, yeah, you might not even know they were there in the first place, like certainly with some of the more remote ones, but that's why I said it's nice to at least see the visual of a conductor I think somewhere and I think it's like, though I understand for sound reasons why sometimes pits have to be entirely remote, I really appreciate it when they are at least somewhat visible.
Kira Troilo (10:00.555)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (10:22.209)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. For people who maybe are more fans and not on stage knowing the inner workings, can you talk about some of the spaces? know, because I'm thinking people who see shows, might not even know what you're talking about in terms of remote or, you know, under or...
Dan Rodriguez (10:27.224)
Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (10:37.664)
Yeah, absolutely. So there's so many different spaces I've been in as a pit musician and they're all different. So like a classic proscenium stage in sort of like a classic theater has a pit in front of the stage where the orchestra sits and the conductor is up on a little stool or something and conducts them and you can kind of see them. But and especially if you're in like a balcony, you can look down and see them. But they're designed to be non-distracting, but a visible part of the experience.
Kira Troilo (10:49.174)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (11:05.389)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (11:05.632)
And also, I would say, like, that's kind of the classic operatic tradition as well. Now, a lot of more modern shows, especially ones that use a lot of electronic elements, very often the pit will be more remote, or it'll be in a covered pit, and so you simply won't see anyone, and you might be in a room under the stage that is not open and you're watching everyone on a monitor. You might be on a little platform above and behind the stage where, again, you're watching everyone on a monitor and they're watching you.
Kira Troilo (11:09.879)
Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (11:35.404)
There are no, I know there are Broadway pits that occasionally the band is in a different building, which is crazy, but, but you know, that's the way it is. Sometimes I've also done pits where the band is divided, like some, some of the pit is in some place. And then like, say the drummer is in another room in their own little box so that they can, you know, play as loud as they can, but also not overwhelm the rest of the band.
Kira Troilo (11:40.055)
Yeah, that's wild to me.
Kira Troilo (11:58.948)
Wow, that, I mean, have you ever done that? That sounds impossible. Wow.
Dan Rodriguez (12:02.166)
I have done that. It's tricky, with good players, they make it work.
Kira Troilo (12:08.793)
Yeah. Wow. I mean, yeah, I have so many questions. I mean, I've, yes, I've worked with you as an actor and a singer. So I'm thinking about, you know, one of the big things I want to talk to you about today is just your relationship with performers. And I think there's a lot we can learn from your style about how you can, you know, promote an inclusive environment with actors and singers. So.
Dan Rodriguez (12:12.46)
Yeah, sure. hit me. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (12:22.926)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (12:32.844)
Absolutely.
Kira Troilo (12:35.616)
Yeah, I mean, with a remote situation. So I'm thinking of a singer who's going to sing a solo, but maybe they're seeing you on a monitor or maybe they can't even see you. What are those experiences like for you in terms of trying to promote a level of support with artists?
Dan Rodriguez (12:53.78)
Yeah, so I really think the most important thing is just being a as a music director is being supportive to your colleagues and that are performing in a more visible way, especially. And so what you can do is you could just say, look, it can be nerve wracking going out there and you can't see me. You can't even necessarily hear me as well as the audience can, because very often the the audio on stage is not going to be as
as it will be going to the audience or it won't be what I'm hearing in the remote pit. So you have to say there's a level of trust and what I try to do is just say, you know, I've got you, you're gonna be okay and trust that we'll be together.
Kira Troilo (13:28.454)
That's right.
Kira Troilo (13:39.866)
Yeah, and that trust is so huge. And I know there are many people, I mean, especially I think of, we talked on the episode, if you haven't heard the episode with Lee Barrett in season one, we talk a lot about Dan. Right, but it's like when you're ready to, you know, might be going on stage and you're gonna sing a whole show and you can't see the music director, it matters, right, whether you've built that trust with that person.
Dan Rodriguez (13:41.046)
F... Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (13:51.81)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (14:02.125)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (14:07.383)
or not and vice versa I would assume because that's another, yeah. How are, what about you, like trusting a performer to do what you've rehearsed when you can't even see them.
Dan Rodriguez (14:10.702)
Absolutely.
Dan Rodriguez (14:20.046)
Yeah, I mean it comes back to what I was saying earlier, collaboration. It's all, you know, we're all in it together and I think if you don't feel that trust and that sense of, you know, we're looking out for each other, it can be hard. But it also takes a level of advocacy for yourself and what you need as a music director. Like I've definitely been in situations where I say, no, I need a visual monitor here. I can't just guess when they're going to come in. I can't guess when they're going to breathe. I need the levels of visual and audio feedback that I...
Kira Troilo (14:45.049)
Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (14:49.794)
you know, are necessary for me to do my job as well as I can.
Kira Troilo (14:53.094)
Yeah. Yeah. And where did, I mean, I'm sure you weren't, I wasn't great at advocating for myself when I started out. Was there, was there a, was that kind of a, something that happened over time? Is it something that you've been able to do more comfortably maybe after, you know, like the COVID period of remote work? Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (14:56.226)
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (15:13.134)
Definitely that, yes. mean, that was definitely a big part of it. But I would say I've always prided myself, I guess, on being pretty good about advocating for both myself and musicians and actors, performers as well, because very often they, I mean, as you've talked about with many people, it can be very tough to advocate for yourself as a performer. And as a music director, it's a position of authority relative to the performers often. So you can...
Kira Troilo (15:34.586)
Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (15:42.336)
advocate for them in a way that they may not be able to for themselves and say, really think they're going to need this support. How do we help that happen?
Kira Troilo (15:49.37)
Right. That's right. Yeah. And how does that, you know, thinking about the beginning of a process, so right from auditions, what would you say, you know, obviously you're looking for people who are the best fit for the role, but what are some ways that you kind of start, you know, advocacy or support at that level?
Dan Rodriguez (15:58.67)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (16:12.8)
Yeah, well, just to talk about auditions, mean, I think one thing that's very unique about the music director position at the level we're at is that music directors are really the one person who goes from auditions or even pre-auditions through closing night. Because directors will maybe come up with everything, but once opening happens, they're gone. once rehearsals start,
Kira Troilo (16:38.757)
Right.
Dan Rodriguez (16:41.716)
stage managers are there, but not prior to that. you know, like there's very few positions that are actually there for the entirety of a process. And really it's pretty much the music director. But
Kira Troilo (16:52.581)
That's just... Yeah, I never thought of it that way. And people are always shocked that directors are gone. Like, yeah, they're opening night. See you later. Yep.
Dan Rodriguez (16:58.572)
Yeah, they're out of there. Yep, exactly. But music director will stay there. I mean, if they're both the music supervisor and music director, and there's a lot of different titles that are very nebulous in this world. But, and like, let's say the regional theater level, usually you have one person doing everything.
Kira Troilo (17:15.718)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (17:21.851)
Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (17:22.126)
And from from the beginning to the end and yeah, that's so it really begins before auditions even when you're talking with a team about who you need for the the piece and then from the auditions absolutely you're thinking about who you know not only Is this person the right fit for the part? But also, you know, are they gonna be able to? Take on this, you know role and then the various aspects of how that will all fit together
Kira Troilo (17:52.198)
Yeah. Yeah. The whole process. Yeah. I mean, and right from the start, you're, you know, for people who, again, are coming in and seeing the show and don't know the inner workings at auditions, you are playing for sometimes hundreds of people. They just walk in and bring a piece of music and you have to play it. And that's their, know, if they're going to sing, what, 32 bars of music, that's a huge two minutes for them. But for you, you're doing it all day. So
Dan Rodriguez (17:52.238)
It's a whole process.
Dan Rodriguez (18:01.422)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (18:16.43)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (18:21.428)
That's true, yeah. mean, so playing for auditions is definitely something I love doing. And I will say I actually prefer to not do it when I'm music directing because I can, feel like, a better sense of people when I'm just sitting behind a table and can look at them. And usually as a music director, now I'm at the place where I don't have to play, but I also still play auditions for schools, other companies that are a show where I'm not music directing and will very often do that, yeah, for days on end.
Kira Troilo (18:21.925)
Yeah, what is that like?
Kira Troilo (18:32.23)
Mmm.
Kira Troilo (18:37.435)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (18:49.809)
Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (18:50.218)
for open calls and yeah, it's nerve-racking, but I will say again, I think of my job there as being the most supportive to the auditioner because what you you never want someone to leave feeling like they didn't give their best audition because of something you did and I'm lucky in that. yeah, yeah, I'm lucky in that a I don't really get nervous about things like that and be my
Kira Troilo (19:08.688)
Right. Yes, pressure.
Dan Rodriguez (19:18.328)
particular skill set is basically sight reading or like being good at picking things up quickly and most musical theater repertoire is also both something I've accumulated over the years in that I know most of what people are going to bring into auditions or if I don't I can probably make my way through it without much difficulty. don't think like I can think of maybe like three times where there's been a you know an actual train wreck in terms of an audition
Kira Troilo (19:25.639)
Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (19:48.044)
That was, I would say, my fault, and even then it's like we start over again and I figure it out and then it's fine. And that's, you know, over the course of like tens of thousands of auditions, I would say. So I think I'm doing okay, but you know, it's definitely, it's a high stress situation and I know it can be difficult for a lot of people.
Kira Troilo (20:07.656)
Yeah, but even in just what you said, like the fact that, okay, if I do mess up, well, it's okay, we'll start over and we'll give them their best shot. I can't tell you how many auditions I've gone to where, you know, it's the wrong tempo or something's off or I'm looking to see if I can start over and it's no, it's done, like they're moving on. So even just in you saying, you know, we wanna make sure it's the best, that's not the norm, I would say.
Dan Rodriguez (20:19.232)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Dan Rodriguez (20:26.988)
I mean, where would-
Dan Rodriguez (20:33.122)
I mean, I hope and think it is moving more in that direction again, and thanks to, you know, things like what you're doing, but I think we're getting, but I think behind the table teams, I guess I'll say, are getting a better appreciation of what it takes to, you know, come in and audition. And what I always tell people, especially students, is that everyone wants you to do your best, you know, like no one is coming in hoping that you fail. No one is coming in being like, wow, I really hope this person
Kira Troilo (20:56.999)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (21:02.658)
you like, bombs this audition. You always want everyone to do your best because you want the best show possible and so you want everyone to come in and be amazing so that you can, like, have a tricky choice, but as somebody who wants everyone to do their best, obviously I think it's contingent upon us to say, yeah, you take the time you need to start over. Like, if there's a time crunch, you know, that's a time management issue somewhere else on the line, I think, so.
Kira Troilo (21:04.573)
Yes!
Kira Troilo (21:29.289)
That's right, exactly. But yeah, I know I've shared this with you, but yeah, I started acting, but when I started choreographing and I went behind the table, that's when I was able to say, okay, they want me to be good. Like I would never, I wasn't going behind the table hoping someone would be bad, yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (21:32.877)
Yes.
Mhm.
Dan Rodriguez (21:41.314)
Yeah, exactly. yeah, and it literally never happens. I think it's great for everyone to see different aspects of the team in that way. So honestly, what I would say out there to performers is try directing, choreographing, music directing, just to see what it's like, because it will give you an appreciation for what those jobs entail.
and also realize that, we all want to support each other. Hopefully. I mean, again, I like to think the best of people, I would say. And for the most part, I think it's true. It's a pretty supportive world.
Kira Troilo (22:15.623)
Yeah, I do too, right?
Kira Troilo (22:23.293)
Yeah, I do too. And I do, think there's, there's something in just being in different roles and being able to see a bigger picture. And that helps you have empathy. Like even just, I'm thinking out of the theater world, like being a server, you know, at a restaurant. It's like, I feel like that helped me to then be a good customer at a restaurant. Cause I know what they're going through.
Dan Rodriguez (22:31.884)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Exactly.
Dan Rodriguez (22:44.534)
Absolutely, and yeah, think empathy is such a good word for it, I think like, empathy is really what, honestly, all of this is to some degree, like the level of trust we were talking about earlier, is really just the being able to put yourself in somebody's shoes and say, know, like, what would I want if I were them and I was helping them? So, you know, that's where you figure out what you need to do to support the singers, the actors.
Kira Troilo (23:10.259)
That's right. Yeah. And I feel like also support has, or the meaning of support has changed as, you know, as you say, we're doing this work. I'm thinking from a music director standpoint, and correct me if I'm, because this is one field I've never done.
Dan Rodriguez (23:18.891)
Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (23:28.29)
Mm-hmm. Sure.
Kira Troilo (23:32.497)
maybe back in like the 90s or around that time, it was like, these are the voices we wanna hear for this certain part or this person is only right for this and there's more typecasting and that kind of stuff. can you just talk about just voices in general? Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (23:34.465)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (23:39.693)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (23:43.086)
Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (23:49.198)
Sure, I mean, every voice is absolutely unique, is what I'll say. I'm someone who believes that, there are parts that were written for a specific voice type or things like that. But I also think the types of voices that can fit into that voice type are larger than people might have previously imagined.
Kira Troilo (24:14.497)
Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (24:14.542)
And I think what you want to be looking for also are the opportunities to maybe open things up and say what if this person did it and you know I will also say as somebody with perfect pitch I sometimes do get picky about you know, like when productions or revivals will change keys and I'll be like well What you know, like why did we have to do that? But but I also love giving opportunities to people, you know, like who may not have had the chance to play a certain role and
Kira Troilo (24:34.336)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (24:41.398)
us.
Dan Rodriguez (24:43.576)
To me, it's more about the theater that's being created now and the opportunities that new works are potentially giving people, because I think you can really also write to the wider range of voices and abilities that we have now. Rather than trying to sometimes take an older piece that might need more specific or more regimented voice types.
Kira Troilo (25:00.266)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (25:11.606)
Hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (25:11.756)
why not create your own piece that you know, like you can do whatever you want with.
Kira Troilo (25:15.86)
Right. And I hope that's where we're moving is creating more work that's reflective of, you know, the like a broader swath of people. Whereas, yeah, we've been trying to, you know, do these, you know, like golden age musicals and there's there's a place for all those, but.
Dan Rodriguez (25:17.23)
I think so.
Dan Rodriguez (25:24.63)
Absolutely. Yeah.
Sure, yeah, absolutely. like I said, I love Golden Age, but I mean, just as an example, the recent revival of Oklahoma that was on Broadway did, you know, like I thought was a great use of re-looking at the piece without changing a single word of the script or even really a note of the score. They rearranged it, but they didn't actually like change.
Like the songs in any way they did change a couple of the keys but for the most part they were the same with the exception of like Laurie songs, but like But Judd and Curly basically sang in the original keys And so did everyone else so it was I think a good way to remind ourselves that yeah, you can re-envision something without needing to like take it apart and actually that can also really hone in on some something that the original piece might has, you know, like
Kira Troilo (26:16.481)
Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (26:23.348)
aspects of the original piece that might have been lost by people's sort of assumptions about it, things like that.
Kira Troilo (26:28.426)
Hmm, yeah. I'm thinking too about a show we've done together once on this island where, yeah, like the most recent revival changed up who, what gender has played what roles.
Dan Rodriguez (26:31.298)
Yeah, yeah, yes. Absolutely, yes. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's great. And I think that especially if shows are not like, unless there's something about a character as written that is very specifically tied to, you know, like a certain aspect of a person, I think, that's an opportunity to maybe look at it a new way. Yeah, you know, so.
Kira Troilo (26:57.45)
Yeah, absolutely. please, go ahead.
Dan Rodriguez (27:02.058)
No, I was just saying, I think there's a lot more opportunity for that now than there was, also I think people who do casting are more open to that, I hope, again, and we're moving in that direction. But it's still tricky because, again, know, like typecasting is real and, you just get people who think, you know, like, this is what that character is, and it's, you know, then it prevents some people from being seen who should be.
Kira Troilo (27:24.32)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (27:27.766)
Exactly. But it is, I've been in casting conversations with you before and you and I will, you know, kind of ask questions. Like it takes people on the production team to say, okay, well, does it have to be this way? Like, let's talk about it from our different roles. Like, what does it mean? That's huge.
Dan Rodriguez (27:32.322)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Absolif!
Dan Rodriguez (27:41.588)
Exactly. Yes.
Yeah, absolutely. And it's just a matter of having those conversations before you even start the process, I think, is another big part of it, is that, you don't want to go in saying, I guess we'll just figure it out when we get to it. I think you want to go in with an idea of what you want to bring to the show and then, you know, try to make sure that vision happens.
Kira Troilo (28:01.504)
Yes. Yep.
Kira Troilo (28:06.09)
Yeah, yep. And I think that that, you I think about, you know, casting across race, you know, there's a bunch of different ways that a show can be different than it was intended that are more, you know, diverse and inclusive. But one conversation, yeah, one we've had is about just the, you know, trans people have been around for a long time, but now we're starting to see some real trans representation in musical theater, you know, in...
Dan Rodriguez (28:11.658)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (28:17.408)
Yes. Absolutely.
Dan Rodriguez (28:27.598)
Absolutely.
Dan Rodriguez (28:34.178)
Which is fantastic, yep. Yes.
Kira Troilo (28:35.296)
which is amazing, yeah, and just even in getting Tony Awards. But yeah, can you talk a bit about your experiences? Because I know you've worked with some students. And yeah, I love what you have to say on that.
Dan Rodriguez (28:39.054)
Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (28:44.174)
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, and at multiple levels. So, yeah, I mean, again, it's a matter of, think, giving people the support they need. And especially, know, developmentally, like the voice is a weird thing, you know, like, and so for people at various stages of their, you know, like, gender identity can have totally different voices, even if they identify as the same thing.
Kira Troilo (29:10.624)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (29:10.802)
And so it's really, as I said, it's a case by case, know, like everyone has a unique voice. I think it's a matter of finding the right keys again, finding what somebody is comfortable with and trying to make sure that everyone feels as supported as possible. The other thing with music directing is it's not, you know, I'm not a voice teacher. And so I always try to make sure that people get the support they need if they are able to from a voice teacher because...
Kira Troilo (29:32.448)
Right?
Dan Rodriguez (29:39.244)
I think that's also very valuable because I never want to be the cause of anyone's vocal injury, which is a thing that can happen. You will have music directors be like, sing louder or just try this higher. That's a path to potentially vocal injury. You always want to make sure you're never pushing someone to do something uncomfortable for them or for their health.
Kira Troilo (30:03.828)
Right, and that's important if you can't provide, or if you're not equipped to provide the support from your position, then to recommend what they might need, because I know there are some, you know, people don't know the difference between vocal coach, music director, you know, if they're not in the world.
Dan Rodriguez (30:13.261)
Abs-
Dan Rodriguez (30:17.556)
Exactly. But yeah, but no, I mean, I have many colleagues and friends doing really fantastic work. And one of whom is a trans voice teacher and she's been doing really great work. And so just shout out Jesse De Silva, who is great. And I work with the Boston Conservatory. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kira Troilo (30:35.929)
Yes. that's amazing. Yeah, I mean, I'm learning, I'm learning new things all the time. Like I learned from Carly, Carly Fallon, who was a guest on our show. I did. Yes, she's so great. And I didn't, I truly did not know that transition from a male to female, like your, your voice actually will not.
Dan Rodriguez (30:44.386)
Yes, count up. yes. And she was great.
Dan Rodriguez (30:53.326)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (30:58.787)
change whereas the other way it can because of the specific hormone journey. So just knowing that, yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (31:02.26)
Exactly.
And again, it can be different for everyone. I know it's like, that's why very often now we use the terms, like AMAB or AFAB voices in like the voice world, which refers to like the original like birth gender, which may not be the current gender for a person. and maybe it's not the best terminology, but at least it sort of like helps.
understand what's going on with the voices from a sort of physiological standpoint. And so, but again, it's going to be everyone is going to be unique. And so when Carly and I did a little cabaret with Carolyn and last year, another former guest and so, so I was working with her on finding exactly what was comfortable for her. And yeah, I mean, and I had worked, I had worked with her, you know, like prior to her transition as well. And even though her
Kira Troilo (31:51.556)
Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (32:02.958)
voice hadn't changed much in timbre, know, like a range, I guess I would say. It was actually a whole, was still a different instrument than it had been prior, you know, like so, so figuring out what worked for her and also what she was comfortable with was, you know, like part of the process again.
Kira Troilo (32:20.26)
Yeah, and I know that was a huge, that just meant so much to her because if there's a, right, if you're going in to audition, right, she's going in to audition for roles that were intended for, you know, I'm using quote, like female voice, not necessarily, they don't necessarily match what she's bringing. Yeah, so.
Dan Rodriguez (32:25.226)
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (32:40.244)
Exactly, but you know like but I think people are people are getting a lot better about you know, like being open to you know things and in my experience So that's you know, hopefully it's a it's a better world, you know, we're making We're looking towards exactly
Kira Troilo (32:53.316)
that we're working toward exactly. Yes. Can you talk to me while we're talking about Carly and Lee, some former guests who've talked about having you, the thing that they had in common was that they were ill when they worked with you. I have also been ill when I worked with you. And again, like, you know, we are performing things as actors.
Dan Rodriguez (32:59.79)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (33:07.244)
Yes
That's true.
Kira Troilo (33:16.88)
you know, multiple weeks, sometimes months. So some days were, you know, it's like we're at our best and then some days you come and you have nothing. So I'd love to hear just from your point of view, you know, you're working with people, you hear their voice over the course of many months. What are some ways that you, you know, adjust, listen, any of that, you know, during shows or working with actors who, you know, maybe don't have much.
Dan Rodriguez (33:20.321)
huh.
Dan Rodriguez (33:35.234)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (33:45.742)
vocal, they don't have much to give in terms of vocal for certain shows.
Dan Rodriguez (33:49.57)
Sure, so it happens, know, like you're doing a long run of a show and people's voices will just not make it the entire way. And you just have to figure out the solutions to that, talk about modification, know, like maybe you don't do this riff up that you were gonna do before, maybe you are able to take something down the octave, maybe you are able to do something more in a speechy place than in a singy place.
And yeah, again, it's again all about vocal health, I would say, as you'd, never want anyone to be pushing themselves beyond what their body is capable of, because that can lead to vocal injury, as I said. And so we'll always recommend getting checked out. And, you know, if you are able to get like a medical boost and be it, you know, through like steroids or what have you to like get you through, but some, are only like a placeholder. They'll help you, you know, like sing through it, but they won't, you know, cure you.
Kira Troilo (34:27.087)
right.
Kira Troilo (34:43.674)
Yeah. Right, you're not gonna get better, yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (34:45.197)
And that's also, exactly. So, and that's also why, you I think it can be very helpful to have a good understudy system and know that you have, you know, coverage because sometimes you just simply cannot, cannot make it. I, again, we're getting better there. And I think, I think also actors are hopefully getting better about not feeling like the weight of a production is on their shoulders, which to me is the,
Kira Troilo (34:58.092)
That's right. We're getting better there too, hopefully, with understudies.
Dan Rodriguez (35:13.218)
The trouble with all of that is that there's a very strong mentality often of show must go on, which we've talked about. I think that that can be a dangerous thing occasionally. I think it's a matter of trusting your body and saying, no, I can't do this today. And I can't make these sounds even with the modifications. And having the freedom to do that is its own thing. And again,
Kira Troilo (35:30.554)
Great.
Kira Troilo (35:35.236)
That's right. Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (35:42.764)
Like I said, it's advocacy. And sometimes I've had to be the one, you know, like talking to like a production or to like a honestly, not even a production team at that point, but more like the, you know, like the theater management just to be like, this actor cannot do this. I think we need to, you know, call it off or whatever. So.
Kira Troilo (36:00.932)
Yeah, that's, again, that advocacy because there's so, I know so many actors who, right, are not gonna say, can't do it, but they can't do it. I can't remember if I've told this story on the podcast before, but just, you know, I was in a show where, you know, it was, for many reasons, could not.
Dan Rodriguez (36:03.566)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (36:08.718)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (36:14.19)
Yes.
Kira Troilo (36:19.492)
there could not be an understudy and lost my voice completely after the first number. And it was a show that was like totally sung through. And I'll never, I mean the last five years for anyone who is wondering what show and in that show you as Cathy or Jamie, you sing the show, you never come off stage and see the music director. Like if you, if you come off stage, there's no time to talk to the music director because the music director plays the entire show through.
Dan Rodriguez (36:21.155)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (36:27.042)
Yep.
Dan Rodriguez (36:31.766)
Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (36:38.114)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (36:42.304)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's true.
Kira Troilo (36:47.914)
So, you know, you and I, Dan, communicated through, you know, whatever, like theater magic telepathy, because all you could know was that my voice had, you know, given out and I couldn't communicate with you until it was over. But I don't know, maybe just talk to me about, you know, from my point of view, I knew that the levels came down, you know, people, the band was playing quieter.
Dan Rodriguez (36:50.594)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (37:01.26)
Yep.
Dan Rodriguez (37:10.957)
Uh-uh.
Kira Troilo (37:15.032)
And it was a true nightmare, there was a lot of, I was feeling better knowing that you understood what was going on. So yeah, so.
Dan Rodriguez (37:23.682)
Yeah, I do appreciate that. And yeah, mean, here's the other thing is you've done this for a while, you can hear when somebody's voice is not at their full capacity and you can instantly adjust, you know, as a sensitive music director, I will always try to just, you know, be like, they're they're not feeling it. Let's take it down. And, know, you can and then it's a matter of communicating that to the pit and as quickly and seamlessly as possible.
and then making the adjustments necessary. And yeah, I mean, it was in a similar situation, honestly, just a couple of weeks ago with our, an actor was, again, his voice was giving out and luckily this was not the last five years. So we had a chance to like run, I had a chance to like run in, know, like down to him and be like, hey, try these modifications, you know, like, and I'm gonna take out this little bit and we made it work. And, you know, like then he was on the path to recovery.
Kira Troilo (38:05.337)
It's a joke.
Kira Troilo (38:15.504)
It's amazing.
Dan Rodriguez (38:17.944)
pretty soon after that, but it's definitely, you you list, you're always listening out for what is going on with the performance because that's the other magic of live theater is that it's, every one is going to be different. And so I'll say I like, I even on a show with the long run, I never do it the same way twice because every performance is different, you know, and maybe it's going a little, you know, faster or softer or louder or, you know, slower, depending on what that
Kira Troilo (38:30.34)
Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (38:47.318)
night needs. so yeah, it's the being able to make those adjustments, I think is a really big part of it and important for the whole team.
Kira Troilo (38:48.516)
That's right.
Kira Troilo (38:57.038)
Yeah, and feeling the environment. I love you said like feeling what the environment needs, right? Maybe it's like a tired Wednesday and it needs a little pep like, you know, let's go.
Dan Rodriguez (39:01.957)
Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (39:05.46)
Absolutely, yeah. And again, is a sort of, again, an old school mentality because a lot of shows these days, you know, like on tours and things like that will be clicked or, you know, like they'll be using a click track and like filled in orchestration. So you simply can't make those adjustments as easily. And so I, you know, I will always say I prefer to do a more acoustic show over one like that because it gives me a little more control of the environment.
Kira Troilo (39:17.392)
Mm.
Kira Troilo (39:33.518)
Yeah, I prefer that as well. Those are some ways you've talked about, you know, feeling the environment and feeling what's going on and being in tune. But are there any other suggestions you have for other music directors out there who are up and coming and wondering what they can do in terms of support and creating more inclusive stages?
Dan Rodriguez (39:36.238)
Hmm
Dan Rodriguez (39:55.778)
Absolutely, I mean, I think music directing, as I said, is like a very important position and one that is often unappreciated. though you may feel unappreciated, know that many people appreciate you, first of all. And yeah, just remember that you're there to really be the, you know, bedrock of support that like the singers need because it's not a musical without music. So it's...
Kira Troilo (40:02.863)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (40:23.766)
It's all about providing them the ability for them to safely do what they need to do to get through the performance and inhabit those characters.
Kira Troilo (40:35.684)
Definitely. And what can, on the flip side, what can, you know, maybe a two-part question, what can actors do to further support musicians and music directors? Because, you know, I do think that they're, people can take for granted what it takes to do that work. And like you said, it's a lot of it is unseen. You're there all the time, more than anyone else. So is there anything else that artists can be doing to support you?
Dan Rodriguez (40:41.272)
Sure.
Dan Rodriguez (40:55.501)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (41:00.782)
Sure, mean, I think, again, things are getting better, I would say, but I think, just remember that musicians exist and are there to support you. I feel like, in particular, we haven't really talked about it, but like the non-music director musicians are also there, and I always encourage them to reach out and like try to meet, you know, on stage artists as well and vice versa, because you can go through practically an entire show without like ever meeting, you know, a musician who's
playing there six nights a week with you. Which is crazy, but it's just that, you know, because you maybe go in different entrances, the actors go to their dressing room and then the musicians go in their entrance and go to their green room and then never cross paths. But I think it should, you know, like, we're all in this together. And so I think something that actor performers can do is, yeah, just remember that like the...
Kira Troilo (41:31.787)
That's right. This wit is crazy.
Kira Troilo (41:46.059)
That's right.
Dan Rodriguez (41:58.434)
musicians are there both to support you but also to be a you know to help give you the energy that you you need to perform because a lot of it comes from that you know i think so
Kira Troilo (42:10.292)
Yeah, I started, I can't remember when, like years ago a musician came up to me and was like, hi Kira, was talking to me and we had a great conversation and I was like racking my brain for what show did we do together? And I hated that feeling. So I make a point now of just like any show I'm on, I just introduced myself to every musician and I want to make sure. Yeah, that like they know me and I know them.
Dan Rodriguez (42:13.102)
I'm going to home.
Dan Rodriguez (42:18.795)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (42:25.294)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (42:31.074)
Yeah. Absolutely.
Kira Troilo (42:37.335)
And yeah, but now, mean, this is another question, you know, like that's great for artists, you know, to keep in mind, but in terms of, you know, an inclusion consultant coming in or, you know, leaders who want to support the musicians, I've...
Dan Rodriguez (42:41.134)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (42:49.418)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (42:52.97)
I found for some reason it's like the last level of people that I'm able to get to in our current process in terms of support. So it's like if I go into a show and I'm supporting a cast, great, okay, we kind of know that process. And then trying to get the crew involved. And then the musicians are just only there for so, you know, so few rehearsals. It can be hard to make a connection and see, you know, what it is that they need. So.
Dan Rodriguez (43:04.514)
Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (43:15.05)
Yeah.
Kira Troilo (43:21.782)
Yeah, just wondering what your thoughts are there and like, are there needs that aren't getting addressed because of the current, you know, form of rehearsals in general?
Dan Rodriguez (43:24.193)
I've been-
Dan Rodriguez (43:32.322)
I think to some degree, yes. what I'll say is that music and musicians are always like a weird thing in like theater, for example, like of the equity theaters in Boston, only three of them in, and there's a lot, there's a lot of equity theaters, only three of them use union musicians. so like that's, which is, so musicians working on union contracts and
Kira Troilo (43:54.434)
Oof.
Dan Rodriguez (44:00.044)
The Musicians Union is its own thing, which is totally unrelated to Equity, of course, and so the hours and breaks that they work are different than Equity breaks and things like that, so even getting those to collaborate enough to work together can be tricky, and again, there's basically only very large theaters here that I get to work at.
Kira Troilo (44:18.551)
other.
Dan Rodriguez (44:28.302)
able to bring them in for more than the bare minimum. And so that's big part of it. that's, I think it would be great if producers could say, I'd love to bring musicians in earlier to the process. But I will also say that for musicians, it's not like they often need a lot of rehearsal in the sense that, we do a zits probe, then we do a band rehearsal, a zits probe, and then we do a couple of dress rehearsals, and we're usually good to go after that.
Kira Troilo (44:31.638)
Hmm
Kira Troilo (44:58.35)
Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (44:58.514)
And I think it would be helpful to maybe make regular a pre-Zitz probe, let's say, session with like an EDI person, you know, or something like that, just to be like, what do you need? What can we get to, you know, what level of support do you need? Because often that ends up going through the contractor, which occasionally is also the music director, but more often than not is actually somebody else. So...
Kira Troilo (45:24.398)
That's right.
Dan Rodriguez (45:26.24)
Like I will say, at some places I hire the musicians myself, but for many places I do not. that's a separate position. usually musician needs are filtered through them more than through the music director.
Kira Troilo (45:44.355)
Right. Yeah, and I find when your needs have to be filtered through one person, I mean, if it's an amazing person who cares, great. But yeah, that can be tricky to have your voice funneled through one person.
Dan Rodriguez (45:50.637)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Dan Rodriguez (45:56.75)
Yeah, and then I think conversely like in the other direction sometimes the musicians end up not getting some of the There can sometimes be communications breakdowns where like sometimes it'll be like, this is the happening in the theater now But we didn't we forgot to tell the musicians so like here's an email last minute that you know, like such and such is happening or like, you know Very often I will you know, if an understudy is on for example, I'll let them know
minutes before downbeat and it'll be like just so you know so and so's on so here we go this song's going to be in this key and tempos are going to be a little slower and you know rolling with it is part of the job but it's definitely you know it would be nice to more part of the complete picture
Kira Troilo (46:30.298)
Surprise!
Kira Troilo (46:37.06)
Yay.
Kira Troilo (46:41.7)
But it would be nice to be more of, yeah, like to be part of the messaging and the big picture. Yeah. Right. And our musicians, they're often not on the reports. Like I'm thinking of post-show reports where...
Dan Rodriguez (46:55.892)
Yeah, usually you get like, well, usually it's just the contractor and the music director usually are on like performance reports, which is, would say, enough. mean, you know, not like individual actors are getting those either, you know, it's, it's nice to at least acknowledge that they exist and are doing the work, I would say. So that's.
Kira Troilo (47:08.143)
getting.
Kira Troilo (47:15.29)
Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. That's great to hear because it's always my I always feel going into, you know, dress rehearsal where the music, you know, is that musicians have maybe done right one band rehearsal, sits probe.
Dan Rodriguez (47:23.309)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (47:27.094)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (47:30.222)
we're trying to create, and I'm talking, when I go in, I'm trying to create this environment of unity and we're all an important part. And I just feel like there is that rehearsal missing where we all gather before just the band goes to their, whether remote or pit or whatever, and the cast goes separately and the crew goes separately. So yeah, like what would it look like to have the entire group together or at least have them
Dan Rodriguez (47:32.544)
huh.
Dan Rodriguez (47:46.38)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (47:59.454)
know, have access to talk about rehearsal room culture or guidelines or needs. And like you said, that does come down to money because people need to be paid for their time. And right now, a big barrier to that is they're not, know, musicians aren't being paid to come in and talk about what they need.
Dan Rodriguez (48:03.747)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (48:18.642)
It's true, and that said, mean, like, I think it's... In the musician world, again, because lot of pit musicians are also doing non-theatrical work as well, and in the orchestral world, it's, like, not really as much a part of it, you know, you just, you show up, you play, you leave, and that's it. And that's the expectations, but I think it would be still helpful to have, like, that opportunity to voice...
Kira Troilo (48:28.857)
Yeah.
Dan Rodriguez (48:44.6)
concerns if need be because again I think we all want to feel heard.
Kira Troilo (48:49.134)
That's right. Yep. And we have, well, inclusive stages as a larger entity. You know, we're trying to make a difference in the orchestral world too and opera. I just spoke to someone who,
Dan Rodriguez (48:59.702)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
Kira Troilo (49:05.178)
Aubrey Bergauer, whose episode, by the time this comes out, will have happened. She is primarily in the classical world and the orchestral world and she's like a CEO business mind. And she is talking about how important workplace culture is in classical music and how if we don't pay attention to the environments we're creating, then the form will die. So it's interesting even just
Dan Rodriguez (49:10.338)
You
Dan Rodriguez (49:19.918)
Mm-hmm.
Kira Troilo (49:35.182)
you know, you think about, these musicians who play theater, who play classical, who play these different venues, there's different levels of focus on inclusion. Whereas I think that that's what needs to change.
Dan Rodriguez (49:39.214)
Mm-hmm.
Dan Rodriguez (49:46.446)
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, and what I will say, having dipped a toe into the classical world, one reason I do not have more than a toe in it is that it can be a much trickier and less inclusive world in many ways. and it's good. Yes. Sure. But again, I'm not the person to talk about it because, like I said, it's only been a toe. but certainly like there's been, you know, there's work to be done there as well.
Kira Troilo (50:02.638)
different, maybe we'll talk on season three about that.
Kira Troilo (50:16.376)
Definitely, yeah. What didn't I ask you that you're dying to talk about? Is there anything on your mind in the inclusion world for music directors?
Dan Rodriguez (50:22.165)
Dan Rodriguez (50:27.714)
I mean, I think just remember that musicals would not exist without music and that, you know, that's, I think it's very important to give everyone, like, the opportunity to show themselves musically, you know, that's, I think it's very valuable.
Kira Troilo (50:45.08)
Yeah, yeah it is. What does the future of inclusion for theater look like to you?
Dan Rodriguez (50:51.298)
I mean, think it's like everyone having the opportunities to show their best selves in whatever form that is. And I think we're, like I said, moving in that direction, but I think it's, it's tricky. You know, there's definitely still things to fix and, you know, overcome, but I think we're, I would like to think moving towards a world where people don't need to feel scared to show their, you know, best selves and their, and, know, whatever, whatever that means to them.
Kira Troilo (51:21.636)
Yeah, love that. Well, thank you for being a person who I know people go into auditions and they can feel that way because they see it's you. They say, OK, I'm going to be OK. That's why we love you.
Dan Rodriguez (51:28.782)
But I.
Yeah, and I guess I would say, and thank you, I would say, yeah, just know that I, if you see me there, I'm there to support you. And that is all I, and if I'm doing my job, I feel like I'm supporting people. And that's what I would like the most.
Kira Troilo (51:47.086)
Yeah, that's amazing. Yay. Well, thank you so much, Dan, as always for, yes, just for your friendship, for your collaboration, and for your generous time with us.
Dan Rodriguez (51:52.916)
thank you so much. Thank you having me. You are so welcome. like I said, long time listener, glad to be asked to be on it. It's truly an honor.
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